1911Forum banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,228 Posts
The second type logo is the same as the third except the lettering is about 3/8 of an inch longer. The first type is different and pretty rare. If you really want to learn this stuff, buy a Clawson book from Karl Karash for about $50 and I think he includes a CD with lots of pics that will help ID the variations.

The pistol in question is a 1945 production with an early type MSH. I believe by 1945, R-R was using grooved MSH with 8 ribs. The finish looks ok, but whenever I see something that's not correct it makes me wonder especially when the seller appears to be pretty knowledgeable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Sgt Art

Thanks for the information, I didn't pick up on the MSH. I do have Clawsons book and I tried comaring the photos in the book of the 3rd logo slide to the pictures of the slide in question and I could not tell for sure if it was a 2nd or 3rd logo. What do you think?

Greg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,358 Posts
This is a Type I slide logo, and the Type II is the same size, but instead of having SYRACUSE, NEW YORK, the Type II has SYRACUSE, N.Y. U.S.A. Both logos are approximately 1 3/8 inches long where the Type III is approximately 1 inch long.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,651 Posts
I'm no expert but it looks original to me. I'll bet it will got for close to 2 grand.
Wow. I'll have to watch and see what it gets, because my 2.145 is better than that one and it has the right serrated housing plus the original two Scovill mags. These things have really gone up over the last couple of years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,228 Posts
The pistol on GB has the third variation logo which would be correct for that pistol. I emailed the seller and pointed out that the MSH is not correct. He acknowledged that with a comment stating that's why he didn't state it was original (that part). IMO, that's a lie by omission as he goes to great lengths to state part by part which ones are original.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,651 Posts
The pistol on GB has the third variation logo which would be correct for that pistol. I emailed the seller and pointed out that the MSH is not correct. He acknowledged that with a comment stating that's why he didn't state it was original (that part). IMO, that's a lie by omission as he goes to great lengths to state part by part which ones are original.
You're right - smoke and mirrors. An honest man would state that FIRST. I guess people in general think it's okay to hide faults from buyers, since that has been the way business has been done forever. Basically every advertisement or commercial you see or hear is a lie and always has been. Now this guy doesn't hide the housing, but he does imply the pistol is original. Most inexperienced buyers looking to get into a nice WWII pistol before they go any higher might not know that. Now, it is possible that the housing was changed out for some reason while the pistol was in service and I would not have faulted him for suggesting that. He just didn't want to let go of that additional money for a presumed original gun. CAVEAT EMPTOR!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Thanks all. I see now what makes it a third logo and correct slide (Thanks Johnny & Art). I was focusing on the wrong detail and yes I agree sometimes what we don't say can a lie or very misleading. A good friend told me to learn as much as I could by looking at other peoples pistols so I am prepared when it is time to make a purchase decision and that is all I am trying to do "learn" not criticize.
Thanks again
Greg

Oh and by the way Johnny a first logo is missing from my collection. What can I expect to pay for one that nice?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,584 Posts
I love the early DuLite Rem Rands. I posted 8 DuLites, 3 type 1s and 5 type 2s, over on Jan Still's Luger/Axis pistol forum recently. It is easier for me to post pics over there. Have lots of trouble here(file size).

I had rather have Johnny's pictured pistol than an equal condition US&S.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,228 Posts
I guess people in general think it's okay to hide faults from buyers, since that has been the way business has been done forever
He didn't hide it, the pic is right there. What he's counting on is someone who knows a little (a little bit of knowledge thing, you know) but not enough. He tells all about the correct parts and lets the pictures do the rest. That way when the buyer finds out, he can always say, "hey man, there were pictures showing all that". As GB doesn't require an inspection period like AA, the gun is yours. On top of that, he figures it will take the buyer a week or more before someone clues him in and by then it's too late. He's just a bit too crafty for my liking.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top