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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have never been to California, nor do have friends there to get a delineated view of the political landscape. However, in another recent thread that state's attitude to firearms was mentioned again.

We all know about the 2A. However, how they can get away with laws and restrictions not permitted in other states considering the 10A and "equal justice under the law"?

It would appear to me that anyone whose rights were negated and abridged by Sacramento could go in front of the Supreme Court and have the entire slate of laws negated by just citing the 10A alone.

Am I missing something?
 

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Am I missing something?
The hundreds of thousands of dollars it would cost, the seemingly endless budget and heel dragging lack of concern of the government. Oh, and all the other political shenanigans that would be brought to bear on you, your family, your home, and your attorney.
L.
 

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Yes. Courts, judges, voters, politicians, cities, counties, & whomever else has a hand in it can violate The Constitution all they want.

"Keep & Bear" means Own & Carry. *** ELSE could it mean??

But you cannot carry a gun in Ca without an arbitrary decision made by the whim of an official, based on personal biases.

To anyone with a brain bigger than a milkdud this is CLEARLY a violation of the 2nd Amendment.

But unless somebody wants to take it to court & THE COURT AGREES TO HEAR IT, so it will be.

& even if the bans on carry were recinded, they would just get reinstated again in the next go-around.

I live here in Ca. My life does not revolve around guns only, so it's worth the trade-offs. SO FAR. But it p*****es me off every day.
 

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Calguns Foundation

This is the foundation that many of us California gun owners and shooting sports enthusiasts belong to and contribute. It's a long process and we're making inroads, but it takes a lot of time and resources. We welcome donations just like I and many others donate to 2A and shooting sports organizations in other states.

Here is some recent news of the ongoing fight:

http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/news/
 

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California gun laws are indeed a hindrance relative to the freedoms seen in other states, but they do not create an absolute barrier to gun ownership and use.

It is not a simple thing to go before the Supreme Court. You can't simply file a brief or bring suit and have them weigh in. Lower courts will get a say first then appeals will take it up the chain - perhaps ultimately to the Supreme Court. Even then, the Supreme Court may choose NOT to hear the matter, potentially reverting the matter to a lower court. If you're my age, you might expire before the matter is fully adjudicated. L.E.'s comment of hundreds of thousands of dollars would seem an underestimate in my opinion.

Merry Christmas (from California)!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
My position on including the 10A would be akin to having California say that you cannot utilize free speech without a state mandated license. Since free speech is an enumerated right, and not subject to "states rights" issues, why not the 2A?

Same with the "equal justice" argument. In Wisconsin you cannot pass laws in limited local municipalities that are more restrictive than overall state law.

If I can get a "shall issue" license in East T-Shirt, West Alabama, then why don't my enumerated rights apply in California.

If this was a subject along racial guidelines, for example "drawing and quartering" is accepted in Sacramento despite the 8A, my guess is Gloria Allred would be camped out there this afternoon.

To that, must all Constitution cases involving the Bill of Rights go through state courts first, or can they be "fast tracked" for compelling issues of abridged rights?
 

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Why is the focus of all this hate on Ca? There are other states that are worse. In fact, the op admits that he neither lives here nor knows much about the laws. So, why even start this inquisition?
 

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Why is the focus of all this hate on Ca? There are other states that are worse. In fact, the op admits that he neither lives here nor knows much about the laws. So, why even start this inquisition?
Rastoff, I understand your frustration. I get real tired of all the California bashing. Its my home. I don't degrade others home states.

Now, that being said, I understand the frustrations of others regarding California laws because, as it goes in California, so it seems to follow in other state. So I concede that our socialist politicians here in California can and do have negative affects on others. I wish the opposite in that there conservative politicians had more affect on us was true.
 

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No kidding...I have family in Chicago, and friends in D.C., NY and Maryland, and they envy us when it comes to firearm ownership.
The Supreme Court may have vindicated our belief that the Second Amendment gives citizens the right to own guns for protection, but they left the door wide open to still allow restrictions on gun ownership. Because of this fact cities like Chicago may have been forced to allow private handgun ownership, but they were allowed to make the process so difficult that for all intents and purposes it's still nearly impossible for most people. That's like saying you have the right to freedom of speech, but only so far as to nod your head in either a "yes" or "no" answer.
 

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I love how people WHO DON"T LIVE IN CALIFORNIA always seem to be soooo concerned with knowing everything there is to know about California gun laws and such.

While California does have it's share of asinine politicians who have made and passed several idiotic gun laws, we're still not as archaic as some states!

While not everyone is allowed to CC, mostly only those in rural counties or those that have justifiable reasons who live in surburbia, it's still a great place to live.

I really do wish those that live outside of California would get their facts straight before spouting off at the mouth about how bad California sucks.

Show me one other state where you can water ski, surf, snow ski, para sail, wind sail, parachute and dune buggy in sand dunes all in one day within hours of each other? Oh, not to mention shoot guns in the desert also! Show me.

I'll take living here, earthquakes and all before living in hurricane paths and tornado alley's!!

Rant over, thank you. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Rastoff, I understand your frustration. I get real tired of all the California bashing. Its my home. I don't degrade others home states.
That's not the reason I brought this up. I wasn't stressing the "California policy" so much as the issue of the Amendments. Let me explain.

My state of Wisconsin is technically "California lite." We were one of the last states to get the CCW provision, and the liberals are pulling out all of the stops to throw Gov. Scott Walker out of office. AG Van Hollen has already said he's stepping down. We could very well be facing a liberal governor, as well as both a leftist senate and congress.

If so, trust me, Wisconsin socialists are not to be trusted. They will do anything to ensure my state is "progressive." My fear is that they will pass legislation similar to California's, which doesn't seem to be challenged on Constitutional issues.

Walker originally said our CCW provision was the beginning of his intent of "Constitutional carry." That seems to have cooled. I figure if the 2A and 10A can be circumvented in California, the lefties will try it here.
 

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Guys

I hate "California bashing" as much as the next (CA) person. But I did not see anything that resembles "bashing" in the OP's posts. Some people are genuinely interested in the situation here. And we need all the help we can get. The better informed the rest of the country is on the crap that goes on here and in states like New York, etc., the better. The more they know, the more they can potentially help and/or try to prevent it from happening in their state.

So please be patient and take the time to try and educate those that are genuinely interested. How are they going to "get their facts straight" if they can't ask questions?

And I promise that I will be the first to join you in circling the wagons to deal with true "bashers." :)


OP, I live here and it astounds me too how they can "get away with it." I'm not sure I have an answer on that. However, and as others have said, fighting it through the courts is a very complex, timely and costly exercise. Think Chess not Checkers.

You don't simply knock on the Supreme Court's door and tell them you have a problem that they need to solve. It takes the right case with the right circumstances with the right participants (plaintiffs/defendants) at the right time and with the right legal counsel to make a run on overturning the mayhem. There is a tremendous amount at stake and significant risk in doing so. Screw it up and the right(s) could be lost forever.

You also have to factor in the "process" to this whole mess. It can take years for a case to wind it's way through the lower courts and make it's way to the SC.

There is an awful lot going on in this state to try to win back our rights. As others have said, the "California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism" board over at Calguns (link below) is probably one of the best places to find information on the status of things. I've posted the link to this forum below and there are several "stickies" that have good summary information in them as to what is going on.

To this end, I would encourage you to ask any questions you have to the Calguns folks. They are far more up to date on things than I am and it's a much better source of California information in general than it is here.

No Man Is Free Until We All Are

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=71
 

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The Tourist,
This is where I have a problem and what got me started:
I have never been to California, nor do have friends there to get a delineated view of the political landscape.
You start with "I know nothing about CA, but..." Why not just start with a question about how to defend your own constitutional rights without the comment about CA?

I see your fears and indeed live them every day. My suggestion to you is to become as active as you can in the NRA. Write your congressmen and talk to your friends as much as you can.

There is one reason the US has had this attack on our rights; complacency. If the so called "silent majority" would get off their backsides and vote, we wouldn't have half the issues we have today. Do you realize that our current president was elected by less than 20% of the people? That should not even be possible today.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
This is where I have a problem and what got me started:You start with "I know nothing about CA, but..."
Because of a local belief.

Many of the laws enacted in Wisconsin seem to have roots in Washington state and California. For example, Harleys are built in my hometown of Milwaukee, but restrictive exhausts are known as "49 state legal" or "California compliant."

This translates into a five year migration east. If some city in California started building landing strips for UFOs, then we'd get them in 2019. Don't laugh, there was a similar lag in Starbucks coffee bars.

If California residents are plagued with gun legislation, and your liberals have successfully punched it through, trust me, our progressive nuts will use your plight to get similar laws passed here.

That's all I meant.
 

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...and, that's why I posted the link to the Calguns Foundation, so you and others can see what we're trying to do/what we're up against. I agree, look what happened in Colorado recently with the gun control laws that were ram rodded through...which is why I started contributing to the Colorado State Shooting Association. Here's a link to a thread I started earlier this year: http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=414933

...to get back to your earlier question, yes, generally, it requires filing in the lower courts first. An example is the recent City of Sunnyvale Measure C law about magazine capacity (the first article in the link I listed in my first reply post). As you eluded to, the best thing is to rally the voters to not let these measures/legislation get voted into law in the first place. Otherwise, it's the proverbial uphill battle that is happening in California.
 

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I do not believe he was bashing California, its a great place, tho the politicians and movie stars misbehave a lot. I was stationed there twice and still have good friends and fond memories of my time spent there. He was not blasting the state or the people, just the politics of it all.

Lucky
 

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The 9th district federal court fully supports CA progressives. For example see californiarighttocarry.org, where a mere citizen is appealing to federal courts that's state laws are unconstitutional as we no longer have the ability to keep and bear arms outside our homes. The federal judge denied the injunction against the state effectively saying the supreme court didn't really mean what it said in that open-carry is protected by the constitution, and that states can ban concealed carry if they want to. California legislators conspire with 9th district federal courts, engaging in sedition and insurrection against the united states. There are no checks and balances in California. Voting is futile with the majority subjugated and purposely addicted to government hand outs.

Edfardos
 

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Am I missing something?
Only that constitutional challenges weren’t legally possible before the Heller and McDonald rulings. Now, several California cases are in progress, including challenges against may-issue licensing and bans on certain semi-automatic firearms. However, these are roundly expected to require the U.S. Supreme Court’s attention for victory, but the high court has indicated that it has no interest in deciding such cases and will default to ersatz federalism where anything less than total prohibitions are involved.

If you want to legally carry a handgun or own a modern semi-automatic rifle, you may live in a state where these things are allowed. :mad:
 

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I believe you're right The Tourist. People bashed a particular politician for stating that the country followed what Hollywood did, but he was right.

The TV rules a lot of people and most of that comes from CA.
 
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