Hand cycled flyers?

913 Views 8 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Patrick Sweeney, Sep 7, 2001

BrianMajors

Discussion Starter · Sep 2, 2001

I've read about the first round cycled by hand can have a tendency to shoot to a different point of aim as the rest of the recoil cycled shots. Also I've heard of gunsmiths being able to eliminate this in a customized 1911. Can anyone please tell me how this is achieved? I own a fabulous Kimber custom target which does not have this problem, it's just a curiousity I have. Thank you all.

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shane45-1911

· #2 · Sep 2, 2001

Welcome Kimber!

The first round flyer is a result of the barrel not locking up to the same degree that it would with a fired round cycling the slide. A custom 1911 will have extra work put into the barrel to slide fit, and lockup will be much more consistent no matter how the slide is cycled.

Usually the first hand cycled round will not be off that much. If it is off more than a couple inches from the main group at 25 yds. I would suggest a call to the manufacturer and see if they will attempt to correct it under warranty.

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Dave Sample

· #3 · Sep 3, 2001

A 1911 pistol should always be loaded by drawing the slide back and catching it with the slide stop. Insert a magazine and drop the slide using the stop. Flip up the thumb safety and you are ready to rock and roll. You are probably right about a custom gun not being as sensitive but who knows? The Shadow do!

Eagles Law: If it doesn;'t work when you need it, you will never need it again

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Baer1911

· #4 · Sep 3, 2001

Originally posted by Dave Sample:
A 1911 pistol should always be loaded by drawing the slide back and catching it with the slide stop. Insert a magazine and drop the slide using the stop. Flip up the thumb safety and you are ready to rock and roll. You are probably right about a custom gun not being as sensitive but who knows? The Shadow do!

Dave, you will get people to argue with you on your procedure, but that's the way I do it.

They will say that it will place premature wear on the small "V" cut in the slide where the slide catch fits. But I find it's the best way to get consistent first shot accuracy. It's the only way that I know to reproduce the semi-auto feeding of a M1911. Pulling the slide back and letting it slam home could have slight variations each time.

We are talking only fractions of an inch in group size, but I need all the help I can get!

------------------

"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."

Latin: "A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand."

-- Seneca, Letters to Lucilius

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bjg-1911

· #5 · Sep 3, 2001

...Okay guys , here is my spin on "flyers"...
You know that last 10% some say don't mean anything when you tighten up the rails...guess what(LOL)! if you have left -right movement and or up-down movement on the slide frame fit you can induce "flyers" by hand cycling and pushing the slide left or right, and or up-down by pressure on the slide. Also, by dropping the slide from slide lock and adding inertia to the slide or taking it away with your wrist can affect your shot placement. The "tighter" the gun is to begin with the less the effect of slide frame fit. Usually , once a new gun takes a "set" it will go to the same lock up everytime when fired or under load since the loads are 'usually' uniform in pressure. Of course there are a myriad of factors that can contribute to "tweaking" the physics of the gun. I will make a general statement here, which you may or may not agree with, that with a well assembled gun the shot capability of the gun once it is broken in and the parts have taken a set is very consistent. And, that most "flyers" are operator induced either by trigger technique or grip control...

______________________________-

"Some days your the dog, and some days your the hydrant"...

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TiroFijo

· #6 · Sep 3, 2001

Maybe I'm just lucky, but all my guns (none is custom) will put a load they like into about 1.5" at 15 yards, standing, two hands hold, no matter how the slide is cycled. Probably I would see a difference at 25 yards if I rested the gun on sandbags or something, but I almost never do it.
I've read a lot about this "first shot syndrome", but rarely seen it with my friend's guns, so I don't know if it happens often. Does anybody knows if normal wear from shooting will "settle" the lockup?

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Metal Smith

· #7 · Sep 4, 2001

http://www.1911forum.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003158.html

Hi kimber45, above is a link to a older post you may have missed that may enlighten you on your question.

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Ned Christiansen

· #8 · Sep 7, 2001

Kimber 45, what I've been doing lately when I'm going for the tightest possible group, is either A) load each round from a magazine loaded with one round only, dropping the slide from slide lock. This keeps everything the same shot to shot. Or, B) chamber a round, and insert a fully loaded mag. Fire that first round off target, top off the mag, and fire one on the target. Drop mag, top it off, repeat for five shots on target. When accuracy and function testing a customer's gun, this has the double advantage of checking feeding, since the top round(s) in a mag are the most likely to give a feeding prob.

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Patrick Sweeney

· #9 · Sep 7, 2001

The "first shot out" phenomenon is quite rare. I've done a lot of accuracy testing in the Ransom rest, and as I recall I've seen two 1911's that did it. The really curious thing was that they only did it with some ammo, and not others.

None of mine have done it, and the two I was testing that "fso" were loaners, so I couldn't tell if time and shooting would wear them in.

Offhand shooting tells you what you can do, and not much about the pistol or ammo. Over sandbags is better, but only a machine rest eliminates the human element. If only it wasn't such a hassle to haul it to the range and back....

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