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Discussion Starter #1
OK so heres the question. I have read many an opinion that the best platform for a hard use gun is single stack etc etc... I have played the IPSC game for a while. I have put about 15000 rounds of 45 through my para. I have abused this gun unmercifully. I have shot it until failure without cleaning just to see what it coud take. About 2000 rounds without cleaning of any kind till she starts to bind up. If I had to design my hard use gun, it would probably be a STI/SVI double stack, bull barrel 5" with maybe a hybrid compesator. For those that are unfamiliar, its the kind of comp that doesnt stick out at all. Its drilled through the top of the slide and barrel. All the rest of the parts can be your typical hard use type but what about the concept of a hard use double stack with a compensator???

Think about how fast those follow up shots would be


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George Orwell: "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
 

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"hybrid compesator. For those that are unfamiliar, its the kind of comp that doesnt stick out at all. Its drilled through the top of the slide and barrel. "

I've never seen one, it sounds ugly
!

If you see a link to a photo I'd love to see it.

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Discussion Starter #3
Only one I could find quickly before I leave work.
http://jeepsubaru.com/shane/pics/hybrid.jpg

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George Orwell: "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
 

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Yep, it's ugly!

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For a hard use gun I would start with a full-size steel single stack 1911A1. I would like it to have all of the best grade parts for long term durability, night sights, beavertail grip safety, 30lpi front grip strap checkering, a 4lb. trigger, durable finish, and above all else be 100% reliable (obviously). Other than that anything else is a bonus.
 

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Yeah, looks ugly to me, but thats why they make so many different things for so many different people.

Shane45,
How do you get any work done?
Your on here more than me in the past few days.

[This message has been edited by Shinglekill (edited 10-17-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hehe welp I can tell you that this forum has definatly cut into my work productivity!!! Luckily I am the network admin monitoring everyone else except myself. Since no one here at work has a clue what I do, I sneak a little more FOT than I should. Then again, when the crap does go down, everyone else still goes home while I'm here to 2 am.

As for ugly. I dont care how ugly it is if it works better. If you have ever shot a compensated gun, you will be tempted to the dark side. I just think that there seems to be a taboo of compensators on hard use guns. Maybe they don't want to have any association with shooting games. When money does not become an issue, when I build my dream hard use carry gun, it will have a hybrid comp and most likely be a double stack. Unless of course someone can give me good reason why my choices would be a bad idea. Thanks all.

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George Orwell: "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
 

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I don't like comps on carry guns, simply because of the chance you may need to fire your weapon from a retention/guard position, and a comp'd gun can leave a nasty burn if you need to fire it from this position.
 

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Single stack or double stack doesn't really matter too much for a serious hard use gun. As someone has said as long as you use premium, durable parts you're good to go. The comp is the only part I've got concerns about. Back when a single stack with a comp was a trick setup I shot one a fair amount. Even shot one from the hip a few times...bottom line, my glasses ended up covered with crud from the expelled gasses and the thought of having to fire one from a tight retention postion is disturbing. Yeah, in a long range gunfight (7+ yds) the comp is gonna keep your followup shots quick and tight, but if you've ever got to fire at belly distance you may get a faceful of gas/jacket material blown into your face...In my opinion it's not worth the risk of losing my sight (possibly permanantly) to save .05-.1 sec on my split times...as always YMMV
 

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I a double stack mag with center feed the rounds have to rotate a little to feed, and supposedly sand or dirt can cause more drag and malfuntions than in a single stack. If you can keep your mag reasonably clean this is less of an issue and I'll pick a double stack unless heading for a war in the desert, I like the Para's grip and love high cap mags. For a compact, maybe a commander size single stack.
For the reasons hsvhobbit explained I don't like comps and hybrids even less.
I would like it to have best grade parts for long term durability, front night sight, black non luminous fixed Novak of Heinie rear, mild beavertail grip safety with small bump, 25 lpi front strap, 25 lpi arched MSH checkering, a 4-4.5 lb. everything proof trigger, durable finish, dehorning, left side only safety (not too large), of course 100% reliable, accuracy 2" or less at 25 yards, not too tight overall (frame, barrel fit, bushing), normal weight barrel, normal recoil spring guide and plug.
I would prefer a Para or Caspian hi cap frame, I think the plastic SVI/STI frames concentrate stress in the plastic/metal joints (could crack if you are hitting somebody with the gun).
In reality, any quality 1911 single or double stack can be turned into a "hard use" gun that I'll like with just a few mods.
Or I could just take any Glock, change the sights, and just learn to live with the trigger
!
Other options I like: CZ75, HK USP.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ahhh good answer. Didnt consider firing from retention or even cramped quarters and having to be extra close to the gun. I have shown myself as coming from the dark side/gaming side of the fence over to tactical shooting/thinking
Thanks for the good answers.


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George Orwell: "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
 

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Shane45,

Carry comp guns are pretty cool and they hold up to hard use. I have one in a doulbe stack and another waiting to be built in a single stack. Yes they spit things out of the top, they have more muzzle flash, they are louder and are little more complicated to build and balance for reliability. It takes a bit of training and I suggest if you do this, shoot it at night to see, it isn't as bad as it seems, and you cant the muzzle slightly away from you when shooting from retention. You may never notice what you see in training when doing it for real with an adrenaline dump. but you still need to train with the particular piece of equipment.

With all that said, I also have several other guns in more traditional configurations of hard use guns. I think carry comps are cool, if you want one, build one. They aren't perfect, they aren't for everyone. but you can't have too many guns..especially 1911s.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
EERW, thanks for the reponse. I drive an hour each way from and to work. Gives me plenty thinking time. As I thought about the responses I thought about all the wacky positions I have shot in with my IPSC open gun. I dont remember ever getting sprayed. And like you said, from retention you can turn it away. I think I do this anyway as to keep the slide from wacking me in the ribs + I'm looking at the threat, not my weapon. But as the good captain kirk (Shane45-1911) and hsvhobbit point out, it could happen. As I am reforming my opinion on this topic, I think the benefit of ultra control may outway the off chance of spray in a tight position. Yes / No thoughts of this learned group greatly appreciated.

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George Orwell: "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
 

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If your going to shoot standard pressure ammo, I'd suggest dumping the comp and going with a lighter than stock recoil spring and a recoil buffer. Alot of the muzzle flip you feel is resistence from the spring.
 

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I would be hard pressed to decide between any of my Kimber 1911's or a HK usp-compact. So far the usp has proven more reliable in a "informal test" of shooting till failure. The 1911's I have averaged 1850 to 2370 rounds fired without cleaning till failure. The compact usp's I have went for 3820 rounds and 3660 rounds for 45acp and 9mm respectively.

Based on this I typically carry either a Pro Carry or usp-comapct depending on my mood.
 

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If there is even a remote chance you'll be carrying this for protection, leave off the comp. No matter what, the benefits are not equal to the hazards and liabilities...The noise and worst of all, the flash from the muzzle and comp combined are at least... more than the muzzle alone and there is no comparison in the level of muzzle blast. Just get another for play and keep a plain Bull-Barrel for the Carry...


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