[Big Arm Hannigan]

As I posted on the general forum, I recently acquired an unfired series 70 government model. I was told it was unique, but thought I would ask some of you Colt experts. It has a serial number that starts with SM. Any ideas or info? Also, my wife says it needs to stay unfired, and I guess she is right, at least until I find out more info, but it will kill me if I can't! I really would like to use it as a carry gun. I don't think I would do any modifications (most of mine have a great deal of them)except maybe sights so as not to detract from the value. What say you?

 

[SamColtFan]

Hey Big Arm....
In 1978 the Service Ace Model in .22 caliber was reintroduced by Colt. The first serial number of that series was SM14001. You didn't mention what caliber the gun is so I will assume that it is in .22 caliber. If the gun is in .45 caliber, you have a different slide on the frame and the pistol is a different configuration than produced by Colt. I would not advise that you use a .22 as a carry gun.
Regards,
Sam

P.S. Did the gun come with two slides?

[This message has been edited by SamColtFan (edited 10-13-2001).]

 

[Big Arm Hannigan]

SamColtFan -
No this is not a .22, it is 45acp and did not come with two slides and is clearly marked with a SM serial number. So now I am really confused! Oh, by the way, I have the original box and it has the same serial number and marked 45.

[This message has been edited by Big Arm Hannigan (edited 10-14-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Big Arm Hannigan (edited 10-14-2001).]

 

[SamColtFan]

Hi Big Arm...
Well, what can I say. All of the serial number listings that I have show that a "SM" serial number prefix would make it a Service Ace Model .22. You might want to give Colt a call and run the number by them in customer service. They will be able to tell you what it is and when it was made. Call them at 1-800-962-COLT. Let us know what you find out. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Sam

 

[Elizabeth Colt]

Hey Big Arm! The "SM" prefix was also used on the Government Models produced in the late '70's / early '80's, so don't worry about false serializing. If it's still a concern...like Sam said, call them. (It WAS also used on the ACE...way to go Sam.)

[This message has been edited by Elizabeth Colt (edited 10-15-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Elizabeth Colt (edited 10-15-2001).]

 

[Big Arm Hannigan]

Well, called Cindy at Colt this morning. She says it left the factory as a .22 Ace! Someone went to alot of trouble to make a box with a serial number to match! The box is one of the brown (fake wood look) types with the following info on it:
.45 acp 5"Bluu
GVT. Model MKIV
model 1970 and the serial number
all appearing to be original!
Since it appears all is not on the up and up, I will contact the store I bought it at and discuss it with them. I guess it will be a shooter after all! Thanks for your help!

 

[SamColtFan]

Hello BAH.....
Given the information that you were presented with at the gun shop where you purchased your Colt, ("unique", etc.) and now knowing that you apparently have a "mixmaster Colt" (different slide on a different frame) and a box that intentionally misrepresents the product, I would take the gun back to the shop and demand a refund for their misrepresentation. However,if the gun looks really sharp and you want to keep it, try to get a concession (partial refund) on the price you paid.
Regards,
Sam



[This message has been edited by SamColtFan (edited 10-17-2001).]

 

[dsk]

Ditto on my feelings. If they give you any crap tell them you already called Cindy at Colt. Once they realize you have proof that the gun is a mixmaster then they'll be forced to do something about it.

------------------
D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1

 

[Redzone]

That is odd someone would convert a Service Ace to .45. Then remark the box to match. I think you could get a partial refund. Take lowest condition rating on a S70 Government which is $285. Then take the lowest rating on a SM which is $395. Average them and anything you paid above $340 get it back. Or get it all back. They may give you only a portion back. Back use the money back if you keep it. To get a Colt .22LR conversion unit. Then you have your ace back and a conversion to .45ACP also. The pages out of the bluebook for their determinations are pg.425 on the Government Model S70 slide. And pg.426 titled POST-WAR ACE SERVICE MODEL. The gun may be worth it to restore with the purchase of a Colt .22LR conversion kit. As no more then 55,000 total from 1931 - present were made. So you have a reciever which deserves a rebuild.

 

[Redzone]

Wait I have an update. Cindy could be wrong. The earliest 70s had a SM prefix only 3000 were made with this prefix. And the bluebook states that they in combo with the NIB condition make it a pretty rare and valuable gun. Sorry I did'nt catch that and a NIB I would put value at $725 X 50%. Maybe $1087.50 in condition you've stated. Sorry to "jump the gun" in previous post.

 

[popeye]

Is it possible it left the factory as a special run with 2 top ends? As a side note: In '68 I bought a 1911 commercial nickel plated for $135 new. I also bought a Ace Kit an had many failures to fire with rimfire, as standard .45 mainspring did'nt have enough oomph to set off a .22.

 

[Big Arm Hannigan]

Redzone,

Wow, now that jives with the gun store owner who said it was one of 3000! If that's the case, then is it more valuable to not shoot. Oh, how I hate to look at something beautiful and not fondle it!

 

[SamColtFan]

Originally posted by Redzone:
Wait I have an update. Cindy could be wrong. The earliest 70s had a SM prefix only 3000 were made with this prefix. And the bluebook states that they in combo with the NIB condition make it a pretty rare and valuable gun. Sorry I did'nt catch that and a NIB I would put value at $725 X 50%. Maybe $1087.50 in condition you've stated. Sorry to "jump the gun" in previous post.

Well, I hate to throw any more confusion into this, but, if you will check out POST-WAR ACE SERVICE MODEL in the Blue Book it notes a "SM prefix (most common) or 'B70' suffix, approx. 30,000 mfg. between 1978-1982." So now we see that the Ace had in some cases MKIV/SERIES 70 GOVERNMENT MODEL serial numbers. The only way that one will be able to tell whether the serial number is correct on Big Arm's Colt is from the records at Colt. Unless Cindy was wrong, we're looking at a .22 ACE.

Regards,
Sam

 

[Elizabeth Colt]

I hate to put a damper on all of the research that you guys have done, but if you gave Cindy the EXACT serial number, then it's a .22. If you're still not sure, call back and see what Colt says.

 

[Greg Adams]

Just my .02. I work at a gunshop in New Mexico which is owned by a friend. We have a new in box 1991A1 Government chambered in 38 Super. It is in the correct box with paperwork from Colt. As this model has never been cataloged by Colt in 38 Super we called Colt. Colt stated that the gun did not exist. They could not explain how we got a 1991A1 in 38 super.

We also received in the same shipment an enhanced Series 80 Commander in 38 Super. Colt stated that their records showed that gun to be 45ACP. They also had no explanation for this.

I guess my reason for this post is to show that even Colt's records may not always be right.

I think the answer to this is that when Colt was going off the civilan market some time back their workers made up a run of guns from left over parts and shipped them to clear up inventory. This would account for guns with nonstandard calibers being found that don't jive with their records.

Anyone else have any ideas?
Duke

[This message has been edited by Greg Adams (edited 10-18-2001).]

 

[SamColtFan]

Originally posted by Greg Adams:
Just my .02. I work at a gunshop in New Mexico which is owned by a friend. We have a new in box 1991A1 Gov't. Colt stated that the gun did not exist. They could not explain how we got a 1991A1 in 38 super.

We also received in the same shipment an enhanced Series 80 Commander in 38 Super. Colt stated that their records showed that gun to be 45ACP. They also had no explanation for this.

I guess my reason for this post is to show that even Colt's records may not always be right.

I think the answer to this is that when Colt was going off the civilan market some time back their workers made up a run of guns from left over parts and shipped them to clear up inventory. This would account for guns with nonstandard calibers being found that don't jive with their records.

Anyone else have any ideas?
Duke

Hi Duke...
Colt is not off the civilian market. Second, the 1991A1 in 38 Super was made by Colt for a distributor. Also, the Enhanced Colt Combat Commander in Blue with rubber wrap around grips and silver Colt medalion in 38 Super was made for the distributor "Lew Horton". This is a rare pony as only 100 were made in this configuration (Model No. 04614E, Serial No. range FC228--E) Is this what you have?

Sometimes with new employees you will not get the right information. Only accurate information from Colt will get your questions resolved.
Regards,
Sam



[This message has been edited by SamColtFan (edited 10-18-2001).]

 

[Elizabeth Colt]

Welcome to the world of the Jedi Knight, Sam.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Hey Greg Adams...as for your $.02, here's your change.....

 

[Greg Adams]

Elizabeth

You can keep the change. Since you seem to think from a previous post that Kimber uses a cast frame and slide I think you need it more that I do.

Sam thanks for the info as that is the Commander model we have.

 

[SamColtFan]

Originally posted by Greg Adams:
Sam thanks for the info as that is the Commander model we have.

Hi Greg....
The bluing on that particular Combat Commander Colt is really nice isn't it? Greg, are you going to pick that one up for yourself? Anyhow, glad to have helped. It's really a keeper, Greg.

Regards,
Sam



[This message has been edited by SamColtFan (edited 10-19-2001).]

 

[Big Arm Hannigan]

New information! I talked to Beverly at the historical department at Colt. It seems that there was a run of Government Models and Ace's that the frames were switched at the factory, so that the government models had SM serial numbers and the Ace's had government serial numbers (might have been 70B, but I did not listen well to that part). So it seems that mine is indeed unique. Now the question is , is it unique enough to keep as is, or is it just another series 70 (although unfired and with a unique serial number? Thinking about going ahead and using it.