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Which one for beginner / newbie IPSC?

  • Springfield "Loaded" .40 S&W - $499

    Votes: 2 40.0%
  • STI Trojan .40 S&W - $879

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • Springfield "Trophy Match" .40 S&W - $999

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • STI Edge .40 S&W (someday) - $1700

    Votes: 2 40.0%
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Discussion Starter #1
I was thinking I'd like to try IPSC, and I'd kind of wanted to see what .40 S&W was all about anyway. My local store has 3 that caught my eye:

SA "Loaded" PX9155L - $499 (fixed-sights, plain-jane)

STI Trojan $879

SA "Trophy Match" - $999 (adjustable sights, national match barrel / bushing, mag-well, front-strap checkering, VERY tight)

My "plan" was to just by the $499 model, see if I like IPSC and maybe upgrade slowly over time as needed / as I learn more.

But there's an awful lot of appeal to just getting it all from the start.

Another option is to continue saving for a $1700 STI Edge...?

HELP! I'm headed out of town for a week, starting tomorrow, so I'd like to snag something quick before I leave (and they're gone).

Thanks,

Mike
 

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If you are thinking about IPSC, look at the Dawson-Jarrett Para. For the money and with Dawson putting it together you'd have a pretty awesome gun, for $1100.00. With this gun, you can shoot limited with some standard (hi-cap) capacity mags, and also shoot L10 with the same mags but downloaded to only 10 rounds. There are some better ones like STI and SVI, but if your on a budget, the Dawson Para will probably be your best bet. Also look around on Gunbroker.com and GunsAmerica.com, sometimes you'll find pretty good deals. If you shoot, you'll want to join USPSA (IPSC for the US), they also have classified ads with people selling guns all the time. Also you get classified to see how you stand up among the other US shooters. I've been doing it for 2 years and I love it. Don't forget, there are also revolver and production classes in USPSA. All are fun to do.

Hope this helps a little.

Here is the link for the Dawson-Jarrett: http://www.dawsonprecision.com/custompistols/dawsonprecision/dawsonjarrett.aspx
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Not so much "on a budget" -- although that's definitely a factor.

Just thinking I'd like to try IPSC without spending a lot of cash, and I'd like a 1911 just for "fun" / plinking so .40 S&W has a lot of appeal.

I _could_ just shoot Production with my GF's CZ75B, or Limited with my Hi-Power 9mm or Limited-10 with my Mil-Spec .38 Super ("minor" scoring for both).

These all sounded like "good deals" to me -- don't want to be kicking myself next week when I get back and they're no longer available at these prices.

Mike
 

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If you just want to try it, you already have a couple of guns that are good for it. I started with a Colt 1911 .45 that I had for almost 20 years, put a little money into it, then bought a CZ, I shot a CZ 75B SA .40 for a year in L10 and did pretty good. Get yourself a holster and a few mags and pouches and go give it a try. You will enjoy it, and after a few matches, start upgrading then. I saved for a year and bought a SVI a couple months ago, let me tell you, its a sweet gun and will it run. I love it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have an old Colt USGI .45, but it's circa 1911 / 1912, with the factory (tiny) sights. It recently died (the slide won't slide) and I'm not real interested in doing much with it.

The "problem" is I just don't really like that CZ75B that much, and I'd have to buy some double-stack mag holders, and a bunch of mags, and a holster for it...

Same pretty much goes for the Hi-Power -- I'd have to buy some more 17rd mags, and some mag-holders, and a holster and it still needs a trigger-job and it's still going to be scored Minor.

Probably the closest thing would be my SA Mil-Spec in .38 Super. I've got a bunch of 10rd mags, 4 mag-holders, a borrowed holster. I'd be pretty-much set with it. Still minor scoring though.

Mike
 

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When looking for a competition gun in .45, go single stack. When looking at .40 go doublestack.

Go shoot IPSC with what you have. Shoot Production (where everyone is minor) with some 10 round mags. Stay out of L-10 when shooting minor. Your GF's CZ will be just fine to get your feet wet.

While there, ask some questions and perhaps try a few guns. Most of us don't mind showing off our blasters. If you want the best base gun for Limited and L-10 then get an Edge or SVI. Both offer more options than the para (although the Dawson para is the best choice in that category and you can use it in IDPA as well should you not get enough trigger time in USPSA!)
 

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Shooting minor for the first few times wouldn't be that bad. That way you can try it with what you have and not be out alot of money.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I've been figuring .40 S&W, just because factory ammo is less-expensive than .45 ACP, and reloading .40 is less-expensive as well (should I go that route at some point).

Just thinking I'd like to have a nice full-size 1911 for "fun", that would also work well to dabble in IPSC.

Really thinking more of a "fun" gun I can dabble in IPSC with, than an "IPSC" gun I can have fun with -- if that makes any sense.

I don't see myself as a "serious" competitor. Just something I might do once a month / maybe 9 times a year.

The rest of the time just shooting for fun. Spinners when camping, lunchtime at Rampart Range, etc.

Mike
 

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Good job, Lycanthrope!

I would just like to ad that I began IPSC competing L-10 with a stock Kimber C-II and shot in the bottom 30% but still had a ball.

I still thoroughly enjoy shooting with the folks here at the same range.

I strongly agree a person should "shoot what ya brung" and just enjoy the first few outings. I don't think the average joe should go out trying to set new records at first. A large part of the IPSC around these parts is excellent "trigger time" and lots of scenarios to test yourself against some very good shooters who will help you improve your game for free. A good time is usually had by all and that's much of what it's all about. I enjoy competition very much but the comeraderie is also great. I have learned a great deal from some very good shooters. (and I have yet to want more gun for myself):p
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'm a sucker for a "good deal". The SA "Loaded" in .40 S&W for $499 is at LEAST $150 less than elsewhere.

The Trojan is usually $995-$1024. $879 sounds like a nice deal.

I don't see many of those Trophy Match models in .40 S&W. There again, $999 looks like a nice price -- $100-$200 less than elsewhere, I'd guess.

I think both the SA's have been discontinued in '02 or '03 -- if I don't snag one now, I might not get another chance at that price.

Or maybe they're not the "deal" I was thinking they were?

Mike
 

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The problem with .40 S&W, especially in single-stacks, is that it doesn't actually run very well in a 1911. Folks shooting .40 S&W out of 1911s in USPSA often handload it to longer-than-standard OAL so it will feed reliably. If you are handloading, this is a non-issue, and .40 S&W is a cheap favorite Major caliber in USPSA for that reason. On the other hand, if you aren't reloading then you are choosing a caliber that is less apt to actually work out of the 1911 platform with factory ammo.

A single-stack .45 ACP 1911 is great for both USPSA L-10 (with 10 round mags) and IDPA CDP (with 8 round mags). Save the .40 S&W for an STI/SVI widebody for Limited/Limited-10 when you are ready to reload for it.
 

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First, determine that you like the sport;

THEN purchase the equipment you'll need to be competitive in the division you choose. As you already have what it takes to get started shooting in Production or L-10, that would be the place to start.

If you think you'll want to stay w/a 1911 platform, shoot L-10 with your .38 Super while saving for an SVI .40 (which will allow you to shoot Limited or L-10). Of course, you could also decide to cross over to The Dark Side, in which case you can use the same dies to load your race gun.

If you get the right holster, it will fit your race gun as well as your Limited gun - just get an open design, like a Safariland or Ghost, so there is room for your optics. Replace your single-stack mag carriers with double-stacks, and you will be Good To Go!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Purpose

I guess I should have stated the purpose differently.

I guess I'm really thinking more of a general-purpose gun, that I could also use to try my hand at IPSC. Not so much thinking "dedicated" IPSC gun at this point.

I suppose it's something of an "excuse" for a new gun too!

:biglaugh:

I'm thinking "major" caliber, and cost of ammo is a big factor. Factory .45 ammo is at LEAST $.05/rd more expensive. At 500-1000rds a month, that really adds up!

Since I've got other guns, I guess I could afford the time to send it back to SA if it doesn't feed well. Lifetime warrantee and all that...

Mike
 

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I wouldn't buy a .40 single stack, unless I already had a widebody in the same caliber. For L10, you have readily-available 10-round .45 mags, but not in .40. "Everyone" shooting .40 is loading them long, so that they will function reliably, and this requires a special, long barrel leade. It also requires 10mm mags, in a single stack. The single stack .40 is really a game gun, while a .45 is versatile, and with more of a resale market, if/when that becomes important.
I'd recommend a Springfield Loaded .45, and a half-dozen 10-round mags, if you want to get started in IPSC. Of course, a few $20 17-rounders for your HP, or a half-dozen Super mags would be good places to start, too. Since you will initially have to focus on accuracy anyway, Minor scoring won't be a big deal. I shoot my HP in Limited, and just accept the, uh, limitations. Likewise, I've shot a single stack Super in L10, and just have fun with it.
 

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I only shoot maybe 10 USPSA matches a year and consider myself comitted to the sport. If you're shooting a few thousand rounds a month then you aren't a general "plinker"!

The absolute best gun to just "play" with is a decent .45 (I started with a Kimber...). The mags are easy to find and relatively cheap. They will also give you less fits than trying to make .40 caliber single stack mags run (which are also not something you will find on every dealers shelves). No one likes a gun that won't run.

If you are going to run several thousand through this gun a month then .40 will pay for itself over .45 in a year and likely pay for a reloading setup.

The Dawson para is twice as expensive as the Springy. It is also twice as fast to do a speed load on and you can play in twice the divisions. I'd recommend going that route.

Of course, if you want to run 10,000 a year through the beast then I'd really want to go to the Edge or SV route. They are built to take a beating and much tighter than a Springfield.
 

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I wouldn't recommend a Para. Been there, done that. So have most of the guys I shoot with. Nearly half of them had serious reliability problems with the Paras. The others were fine, but the people with problems spent a lot of money getting them resolved. All of them have since bought STIs which run reliably and don't seem to break.

If you really want to try the sport without much investment, I suggest you buy a Glock 9mm and shoot production for a year. If you've got the bug, make your decision at that time to choose a division and buy the appropriate hardware.

That said, you can't go wrong buying a 1911 single stack. Even if you're not competing, it's something every shooter should own (right? ;-)). For Limited 10, a .45 is every bit as competitive as a .40 though the .40 is less expensive in terms of reloading and buying factory ammo.

Lots of choices. I wouldn't rush it before your trip since there really isn't one right answer.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I've been shooting 100-200rds of 9mm, 2-3 times a week lately.

That's something like 800-2400 a month. I figured 1000rds/month is probably a good average, and the math is easier.

If I shot that same 1000rds, in .40, it would cost approximately $50/month less than .45 ($150 -vs- $200).

Now that I think about it though, I guess I wouldn't shoot the .40 that much. I like the bang / buck ratio of 9mm.

200rds / month is probably more like it in .40 / .45, so I guess it doesn't make as much of a difference.

Honestly, I'm just not a big fan of .45 -- I have 2 (Colt USGI & SA Micro-Compact). I really like the Hi-Power 9mm and Mil-Spec .38 Super. Just concerned they don't make "major".

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #18
kbear38S said:
That said, you can't go wrong buying a 1911 single stack. Even if you're not competing, it's something every shooter should own (right? ;-)). For Limited 10, a .45 is every bit as competitive as a .40 though the .40 is less expensive in terms of reloading and buying factory ammo.

Lots of choices. I wouldn't rush it before your trip since there really isn't one right answer.
OK. I was just thinking these were good prices ($499 / $879 / $999) and didn't want to be kicking myself for NOT buying when I could have.

If I had thought about it a little more, I probably wouldn't have bought the Mil-Spec .38 Super on sale for $399 when I did, and it's turned out to be one of my most-fun guns!

Mike
 

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Michael,

None of those guns are earth shattering deals. Go shoot USPSA and have A BLAST! Shoot some guns and check it out.

After a year of USPSA I'll wager you'll be ordering a custom anyhow......

;)

More guns.......more fun.
 
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