[Scott Lyons]

Hello 1911 Experts: This is my first post, and really enjoy this forum. The information is awesome!! I have been looking for a Remington Rand and found one today that is similar to what my father carried in Korea based on what he told me. The serial number is No 935748. which I believe makes it a 1942 or 43 Type II? It has a flaming bomb under the Serial No, has FK (Frank Krack) under the Y in Property and RIA under the 1911 A1 US ARMY, an L behind the checkered grip, FJA on the other side in front of the grip and a P by the safety, also a P on top of the slide. The slide is marked REMINGTON RAND INC on top and SYRACUSE NY USA on the bottom. The slide stop is checkered, not serrated, The barrel looks clean and is marked HS. The guy who has it says the only thing that isn't Remington is the trigger which is a Colt, he assumed it was added when it was rebuilt or inspected at Rock Island Arsenal. Are there original Remington triggers out there for this 1911? The slide is very tight on the frame. In my research, I have not found any Remingtons that were sent to RIA for inspection or rebuild, only found Ithaca's with the flaming bomb, RIA and FK markings. Is it possible that the frame could be an Ithaca frame, and Remington type II slide? Also how do I know it is a Remington frame? The guy wants $1300.00 for the gun.

Any information or ideas on what an expert on Remington's would pay? I am new to the service pistols so I am in need of a little help!

Thank you so much, Scott

 

[dsk]

There was no rebuild program for pistols, unlike with the rifles. Pistols were refurbished as needed, and it didn't matter what manufacturer's pistol was sent in. The receiver is a Remington Rand, which I can tell by the fonts and sizes of the characters. The trigger appears to be a milled Colt unit, and I believe the pistol is a bit early to have originally come with the Keyes grips with the rings around the screw holes but I'm not positive. However, understand that the pistol is forever marked as an arsenal-refurbished pistol, and by that definition ANY part would technically be correct on it. I see little point in trying to "improve" it by swapping the trigger for one like it originally came with, even though stamped GI triggers are easy to find and the milled trigger in yours would be more valuable on eBay. $1300 isn't an outrageous price for it, maybe a bit higher than some folks would pay but certainly no worse than what's typically seen on Gunbroker.

 

[vette]

I agree with dsk. It is an arsenal pistol with a Remington Rand receiver. Most often it will have mixed parts. I think I see a type III slide but the pictures lack clarity. Putting parts that may be like the ones it left the factory is probably not worth the investment and will make it incorrect, not correct, as it is correct as it left the arsenal now as far as we know.

If you are looking for a RR that was like one your dad used in Korea, this one fits as one possibly would have been.

 

[1saxman]

True, most pistols in Korea and Viet Nam would have been rebuilds, so don't mess with it. And it is a later Type III slide. Finishes on slide and frame match so that tells us it was Parkerized at RIA. Maybe $1300 is not that high - the market could be speeding up again. In March it probably would have been worth $900.

 

[dsk]

I visited the military history museum in Beijing about ten years ago, and they had a TON of USGI firearms on display that the Chinese had captured during the Korean War. Racks full of Garands and M1 Carbines, M3 Grease Guns, and yes at least a dozen M1911A1s on display including at least two US&S pistols. All were in mint condition or close to it. I don't think our soldiers fielded many rebuilt small arms during that war as so much had been left over from WW2, much of it new and unissued since many of the weapons made in 1945 went straight into government storage after the war.

By the time of Vietnam however things were different, and a lot of the .45s used in that war had been issued out multiple times and were likely rebuilt by then.

 

[Retired AF CE]

I visited the military history museum in Beijing about ten years ago, and they had a TON of USGI firearms on display that the Chinese had captured during the Korean War. Racks full of Garands and M1 Carbines, M3 Grease Guns, and yes at least a dozen M1911A1s on display including at least two US&S pistols. All were in mint condition or close to it. I don't think our soldiers fielded many rebuilt small arms during that war as so much had been left over from WW2, much of it new and unissued since many of the weapons made in 1945 went straight into government storage after the war.

By the time of Vietnam however things were different, and a lot of the .45s used in that war had been issued out multiple times and were likely rebuilt by then.

Did you get to take any pictures of this museum and its contents?

 

[Melter942]

Hey Scott Lyons... nice pistol.

The Flaming bomb, RIA stamp and Frank Krack's initials make the pistol correct with the parts it's now fitted with.

The pics aren't clear enough but it looks like 935748 serial number which would have had the Type II slide address, and as vette said, the slide looks like the later Type III. It's also wearing the later stocks, early slide release and a Colt trigger. Cool.

The FK initials tells us this pistol was rebuilt between 1941-1947 under Frank Krack. (E.B. Elmer Bjerkle took over at RIA in 1947 to 1958.)

Well, we know it wasn't manufactured until early 1943, and we can guess it saw enough service to require a rebuild by 1945. It has earned it's conglomeration of parts and should be permitted to wear them proudly.

• In 1945, RIA rebuilt 12,011 1911A1s
• In 1946, RIA rebuilt 2,559 1911A1s
• In 1947, RIA rebuilt 1,709 1911A1s... only some of them under Krack

Your pistol was in this small group within this narrow time frame. It's like a time capsule showing the accepted norm for the post WWII arsenal activity.

It's quite collectible just as it is. Please don't mess it up by swapping out parts.

 

[JBnTX]

I visited the military history museum in Beijing about ten years ago, and they had a TON of USGI firearms on display that the Chinese had captured during the Korean War. Racks full of Garands and M1 Carbines, M3 Grease Guns, and yes at least a dozen M1911A1s on display including at least two US&S pistols. All were in mint condition or close to it.

You should have grabbed as many as you could carry and run as fast as you could out of there. Then went back for a second trip.

 

[dsk]

You should have grabbed as many as you could carry and run as fast as you could out of there. Then went back for a second trip.

In Beijing??? I don't think I'd have made it very far as they post a cop on almost every street corner. And then there's the little matter of sneaking them onboard an airplane...