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High end Colt?

3386 Views 121 Replies 43 Participants Last post by  mkk41, 
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I hear everybody talking about "high end" pistols. My question is does Colt qualify as a high end pistol? They seem kind of middle of the road to me considering I've heard that they contain the evil MIM parts. Just wondering what y'alls thoughts were on the subject.
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2battranger
MikeFlorida said:
I joined this group several years ago to get good information. The experience of forum members is beyond that of many of us, who have more limited experience.

That said, I have several 1911s (horrors, all in 9mm) and other pistols including a project BHP clone. What have I learned here?

One thing is that it is not necessary to take chances with a firearm that is unknown to me. I respect the opinions of others on this forum. The comments about the lack of consistency and other irregularities with Colt products dissuaded me from 'trying' a Colt. Reading through this series reinforces the idea that one is likely to have problems with their products. That statement is not bashing the brand; it is a conclusion based on members' experience. When other manufacturers make a product that is more reliable, that is a point to note.

Consequently, I purchased a better grade Sig-Sauer 1911 that has proved to be a good gun. I side-stepped problems with Colt, and I am not concerned with the increasing value of any brand. I am interested in proper operation.

The only gun I have difficulty with is that my RIA 1911 does not run with Wilson Combat magazines. Does anyone know about this failure, which I believe is associated with the magazine 'lips?' The gun operates consistently with other standard magazines.

I want to stay out of trouble.

Mike
Florida
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I see your point and totally respect it. But….. you’re truly cutting yourself short not trying a Colt. I’ve owned SEVERAL and never had any issues. Then again, I buy guns to shoot not examine with a microscope and nitpick every single shortcoming or compare my Colt to every other 1911 out there to justify my purchase.

I swear, I read some of the complaint threads here and the whining and crying about their new purchase because it has a tiny little smudge or scratch during construction. The slide fit isn’t tight enough, it’s not polished enough, the stainless isn’t as bright as my (insert any 1911 maker) other gun. There’s milling machine marks INSIDE the slide. The list goes on and on.

Then you ask them how it shoots and they say they haven’t shot it yet? c’mon man! Nothing is perfect anymore especially production firearms. 90% of the Colt ‘issues’ I read about are mostly purely cosmetic. The gun will run fine.
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T
2battranger said:
I see your point and totally respect it. But….. you’re truly cutting yourself short not trying a Colt. I’ve owned SEVERAL and never had any issues. Then again, I buy guns to shoot not examine with a microscope and nitpick every single shortcoming or compare my Colt to every other 1911 out there to justify my purchase.

I swear, I read some of the complaint threads here and the whining and crying about their new purchase because it has a tiny little smudge or scratch during construction. The slide fit isn’t tight enough, it’s not polished enough, the stainless isn’t as bright as my (insert any 1911 maker) other gun. There’s milling machine marks INSIDE the slide. The list goes on and on.

Then you ask them how it shoots and they say they haven’t shot it yet? c’mon man! Nothing is perfect anymore especially production firearms. 90% of the Colt ‘issues’ I read about are mostly purely cosmetic. The gun will run fine.
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I have a new Gold Cup Trophy in the dreaded 9 mm and hasn't had a single issue yet and more accurate than I am, but having read posts on here lately, the 9 mm should be a piece of crap! I happen to like the round and have tons of ammo for it, so I went for it and never been happier. I don't let people make up my mind and everyone should buy what they like, period!
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Isn’t it ironic that a person who doesn’t own a Colt would go into the Colt subforum to proclaim that he passed on owning Colts but instead bought other brands because they’re more reliable…yet in the same post, asked why one of the better choices don’t function well with a renown magazine brand?
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fnfalman said:
Isn’t it ironic that a person who doesn’t own a Colt would go into the Colt subforum to proclaim that he passed on owning Colts but instead bought other brands because they’re more reliable…yet in the same post, asked why one of the better choices don’t function well with a renown magazine brand?
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I tried to be 'open minded' and so bought a RIA pistol to see whether it was a good as others said. I have an opinion concerning a number of problems with the pistol, which I will not go into. I have had excellent results with every other brand of 1911 I own using WC magazines. It was a bit of a shock when a standard 5" RIA 1911 completely jammed as to be useless, not on a single magazine, but all of the Wilson's.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has mentioned that failing for RIA 1911s. I'm sorry, but I do not understand. This is a Colt forum? I guess I am guilty of some horrible offense, because I also wanted to see what the fuss was about Tisas. I bought a Tisas and it is not perfect, but you can run it to hell with the Wilson magazines. (This is what I mean by members sharing information and experioence.)

No offense mean, I'm just a duffer, remember?

Mike
Florida
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MikeFlorida said:
I tried to be 'open minded' and so bought a RIA pistol to see whether it was a good as others said. I have an opinion concerning a number of problems with the pistol, which I will not go into. I have had excellent results with every other brand of 1911 I own using WC magazines. It was a bit of a shock when a standard 5" RIA 1911 completely jammed as to be useless, not on a single magazine, but all of the Wilson's.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has mentioned that failing for RIA 1911s. I'm sorry, but I do not understand. This is a Colt forum? I guess I am guilty of some horrible offense, because I also wanted to see what the fuss was about Tisas. I bought a Tisas and it is not perfect, but you can run it to hell with the Wilson magazines. (This is what I mean by members sharing information and experioence.)

No offense mean, I'm just a duffer, remember?

Mike
Florida
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If you have a problem with your RIA pistol, wouldn’t you think that posting it in the RIA subforum be more helpful than posting it in the Colt subforum?
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glider
Back on subject! Probably the high-end collector handguns are for the most part Colts!! I think the term high-end is usually referring to price, not necessarily quality. We are now seeing the re-birth of a grand old name or the end of the Colt legacy. It is entirely up to CZ at this point. However, the collectables will continue to appreciate and depending on what CZ does may go thru the roof!
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fnfalman said:
Then stick with Mec-Gar mags. That’s an easy problem to solve.

Maybe your Colt mag is defective. It does happen. If a gun to function reliably with one mag but jams with the other mag, then it ain’t the gun that’s the problem. I don’t have the factory .38 Super mag that came with my Gold Cup Trophy on hand, but if memory served, it was made by Check-Mate - which is a perfectly fine magazine manufacturer. Nonetheless lemons happen. Even the great Wilson Combat and Tripp Research had put out mags that were out of tolerance.
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I thank you for the advice, I have a gunsmith and the colt mags are rounded at the top. Yes, they are lemons and I have stuck with mec Gar or whatever they are called. I have in excess of 50 pistols. I just happened to think of that super .38 when I saw the thread. I am serious in long range 1623 yards is my own record with a .338 lapua. I just plink and do it in competition also. Truthfully 92 fs with some Wilson and Langdon tac. guts swooped out is my preferred carry and shoot gun. I just happen to love 1911's, and sorts collect vs, shoot and know inside and out. They are complex but simple guns. I thank you guys for the advice again, yall are sharp!! Boom!! have a Great day.
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dsk
Che said:
The Colts of the 1950s to 1969 were the best ever.
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I will agree that they were the best-looking. The mirror-polished flats, sandblasted rounds, and the very eye-appealing rollmarks made them the best lookers of any production 1911. However all the ones I've owned (probably over a dozen) had very heavy triggers, mediocre accuracy, and a fair share of internal machining marks. By contrast every O1970A1CS Series 70 I've owned had a great trigger, accuracy that ranged from very good to excellent, and internally they were very well machined. The only area where they were inferior was the exterior polishing, and of course that garish and useless MKIV/Series 70 rollmark.

Point is, the "good old days" weren't always as good as we thought and the present day isn't as bad as some like to think.
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dsk said:
I will agree that they were the best-looking. The mirror-polished flats, sandblasted rounds, and the very eye-appealing rollmarks made them the best lookers of any production 1911. However all the ones I've owned (probably over a dozen) had very heavy triggers, mediocre accuracy, and a fair share of internal machining marks. By contrast every O1970A1CS Series 70 I've owned had a great trigger, accuracy that ranged from very good to excellent, and internally they were very well machined. The only area where they were inferior was the exterior polishing, and of course that garish and useless MKIV/Series 70 rollmark.

Point is, the "good old days" weren't always as good as we thought and the present day isn't as bad as some like to think.
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The exterior finish of the bluing can be improved if a person is willing to spend the money. Then you have a very nice 1911.

Was the bluing of the 50s and 60s Colt 1911s the same as S&W revolvers? Neither were royal blue, were they?

I'm wondering if the bluing of the 50s and 60s was 400, 600, or 800 grit.
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peacebutready said:
The exterior finish of the bluing can be improved if a person is willing to spend the money. Then you have a very nice 1911.

Was the bluing of the 50s and 60s Colt 1911s the same as S&W revolvers? Neither were royal blue, were they?

I'm wondering if the bluing of the 50s and 60s was 400, 600, or 800 grit.
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Royal Blued is the name that Colt came up with for the Python’s special polished finish. I don’t know much about older Colt 1911s, so I’ll defer to someone who knows more about it.

Initially all the Pythons came with the special mirror polished finish that is now known as Royal Blued. Later on, Colt began to offer the Python in standard blued and Royal Blued as an extra cost factory option along with the optional mirror polished nickel plating. In the 1980s and 1990s Colt also offered the Python in what was called Ultimate Stainless finish where the SS Python gets the mirror polished finish as well.

For the 1911 back then, the National Match had a different blued finish than the standard blued finish. Nowadays You can still get Colt Custom Shop to re-do your carbon steel gun in Royal Blued, National Match blued or polished nickel plating.

The chemicals are all the same. There’s no special sauce for Royal Blued or National Match blued. The special sauce is in the degree of steel polishing before the bluing takes place. Because of the difference in the degrees of polish, the blued steel will take on different hues as well. A Colt with Royal Blued treatment would look like polished onyx. It’s a mirror deep black.

Most of older Colt blued revolvers also tend to look more black than blue. While vintage SW revolvers tend to look more blue than black. I’m sure that effect has to do with the difference in bluing chemicals each company use.

Also way back in the days, SW coined the name Carbonia Blued as their charcoal/bone bluing process. Colt used the same method but didn’t have a cool name for it. Nowadays many people use the name Carbonia Blued as a synonym for charcoal blued. Even Colt used the same name on their WWI reproductions a while back.

Other gun manufacturers and custom shops offer the mirror polished blued finish but they won’t call it Royal Blued because that’s the Colt’s name even though the end result is the same.
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I only have four Colts that are Royal blued and none of them are vintage.

Nowadays Talo Incorporated tend to be the outfit that commissioned Colt to put out special editions that have some sort of Royal Blued finish - usually accompanied by engraving and/or gold and silver into.

My phone camera simply cannot do Justice to this finish. It’d take a real SLR/DSLR plus photography accessories and the hands of an expert to truly bring out the depth of the mirror polished blued finish.

The last gun was a waste of Royal blued because all that engraving rather defeated the showing of the mirror polish.





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Colt is a dang good product for the price.

Well built and dependable guns with quality parts.

Now what is high end....Dan Wesson isn't high end, nor is nighthawk or Wilson combat.

These are high end:


And this will beat the heck outta any Dan Wesson ever made:

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2battranger said:
Don’t think that qualifies as a “standard production “ Colt. Special Combat are a tricked out specialty edition
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They produced roughly 50 a month when in production. Perfectly comparable to DW single model annual production numbers.
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2battranger
yoemen66 said:
They produced roughly 50 a month when in production. Perfectly comparable to DW single model annual production numbers.
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plus or minus 500 guns a year? Yes, that meets the requirements for a special tricked out edition from a mass producer the likes of colt.
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2battranger said:
plus or minus 500 guns a year? Yes, that meets the requirements for a special tricked out edition from a mass producer the likes of colt.
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50 x12 is 600 guns a year. Dan Wesson makes "a few thousand handguns" a year by their own admission. Across 13 different models, even if that "few thousand" is 6000 guns a year, that's fewer than the 600 SCGs colt produced a year in the custom shop so yeah, the SCG is perfectly comparable to any DW gun that they produced fewer of a year.
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We all agree we like 1911's. I have one Jesse James of Austin 1911. It ran me 5k, its high end and I love it. Before I saved up and bought it I had just a Mil Spec 1911 from Springfield. All in the eye of the beholder.
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2battranger
yoemen66 said:
50 x12 is 600 guns a year. Dan Wesson makes "a few thousand handguns" a year by their own admission. Across 13 different models, even if that "few thousand" is 6000 guns a year, that's fewer than the 600 SCGs colt produced a year in the custom shop so yeah, the SCG is perfectly comparable to any DW gun that they produced fewer of a year.
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Genuinely interested in where you find production numbers for various gun makers. I’d like to see who all make what and how many.

that would be good info to have. Colt is notorious for building a bunch of gun (a certain model) in bulk for a period of time then BOOM! No more of that model for YEARS or maybe ever. So I still consider their upper models to be “limited “ in quantity and availability
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2battranger said:
Genuinely interested in where you find production numbers for various gun makers. I’d like to see who all make what and how many.

that would be good info to have. Colt is notorious for building a bunch of gun (a certain model) in bulk for a period of time then BOOM! No more of that model for YEARS or maybe ever. So I still consider their upper models to be “limited “ in quantity and availability
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Well the 50 guns a month number comes from Brent Tucci who ran the custom shop and has also been stated by Dave Panciotti of Evolution Armory who was a gunsmith under Brent in the custom shop.

The "few thousand" handguns and the numberof models comes from Dan Wessons own literature.

When it was in production SCGs weren't hard to find. I can remember at one point Gunbroker had 120 SCGs listed at one point in 2016 when they were selling cheap. It was typically closer to 20-30, but that was a memorable search.
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2battranger
Feast or famine with Colt and 1911’s. They’re either everywhere, easily available then poof! Gone for years it seems like, then they’ll trickle out some again.

I read on here recently a member called Colt asking about a certain production gun. They were told they weren’t in the production pipeline for the next couple years. I guess they build certain models in batches on a rotating schedule?
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dsk
Colt lacks the capacity to manufacture more than a few SKUs at a time. Most are built in scheduled batches, usually a couple times a year.
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