Hiking question

Originally posted by Scatmanblues:
This question is a bit late in the season, but as I was out walking yesterday I got to thinking. How would you carry concealed when hiking? Assume an extended -at least weekend- scenario that requires a pack with waist belt. It would seem that the waist belt would make it pretty tough to get at an IWB holster. As I am a rather large man, I would think open carry would intimidate anyone I ran into on the trail, and it would also just make me nervous. But I would like to be able to get to it if needed. As it would be for bears, loose convicts

, etc. I would like to be able to get at the gun without having to lose the pack first. I'm planning a two-week hike in Arkansas for this summer and plan to go armed with my .45 and CCW. Just trying to brainstorm early, and figured lots of brains were better than one. Thanks everyone,
Scatmanblues

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I've done plenty of backpacking in my time and the one overriding truth I have found is lighter is better. Packing a 1911 would soon get very uncomfortable. I would plan on something much lighter but yet packs a good punch. A polymer .40S&W would be my first choice. I have hiked and camped in the Cascade range here in Washington for over 25 years, and have never had need of a gun.
Odds are you wont ever need one either but, I understand the desire to be prepared.
Something like a Kahr P40 in a pocket holster in your hiking shorts should work. It is what I would do.
As to legalities of carrying. Don't be obvious about it. You should check with your local Ranger station in the area you want to hike. They will tell you the relevant laws.
If they say it is against the law; ask them to cite you the actual law so you can look it up. Here in Washington it is legal to open cary on public land as long as it is part of an activity like camping or hunting.
Federal parks are out of bounds for guns though.

Good points everyone. I'm looking at going after the Oachita Mountain Trail -a little over 200 miles. I agree that I probably don't need a handgun. Haven't so far in over 20 years of hikes. I was just thinking about the logistics of it while I was out walking and it got me wondering. I double-checked my trail info, and it runs through 2 national and 3 state parks, so I'm guessing firearm carry is out of the question anyway. The pocket gun is a good idea -I had dismissed it because of the lack of any decent firepower, but I forgot about the Kahr in 40. I'll have to dig in Arkansas state laws to see what they say about handguns on trails. I think open carry is okay, but I'm worried about freaking other hikers out and would prefer to keep it low key. I'll have to be carrying more than enough weight in water anyway, since it will be summer and running in the high 80s-90s, but I just wanted to see if there were any novel approaches out there to staying armed without looking like Davy Crockett or a paranoid stalker.

Requirements for defense in the great outdoors are different from those in urban terrain.

If you encounter a two legged predator, the range will likely be longer, the enemy is more likely to have a rifle, and help is not likely to be available. This is no time for a pocket pistol. You need accuracy and power.

Any handgun that will suffice for deer hunting will do. I prefer a short Ruger .45 Colt with Buffalo Bore ammo -- 325 grains at 1325 fps. This revolver is lighter than most magnums and considerably more powerful.

A minimum handgun would be a 4" .357 with good hunting ammo, and a properly loaded .38 Super lightweight Commander with good sights would be fine. I used to have one and wish I had it back.

If it is legal, I always carry openly. I don't particularly care what anyone thinks, but I have not found people to seem to object. It may have even discouraged a goblin without my knowledge. Most do not even notice.

In cooler weather, a shoulder holster may be an option, concealed or open, but I always prefer a belt holster. On occasion, against my better judgement, I have used a fanny pack with integral holster.

I have never needed my sidearm in the city or the country, but then neither have most people. Those who have needed one usually did not have one, and were dipatched to their Maker. I don't plan to be in that category.

Happy hiking, and keep your powder dry.


[This message has been edited by KLN (edited 10-30-2001).]

I have hiked most of the largest National parks ( Yosemite, Sequoia,Grand Canyon, Yellowstone,etc.). I'm not telling anyone to vioilate the law, but my responsibility is to me and my family. I ALWAYS carried a Ruger Redhawk .44 mag. 51/2in. Of course I always went to great lengths to keep it concealed. I also have never had a cause to use it, but was always ready. My biggest concern was bears and out of control elk or moose. Thus the .44. Any 2-legged BG would definitely be stopped. Keep the gun hidden, don't flash. Taking the time to pull the gun out of a side pocket of a pack is a lot better than not having one at all. Always take it with you when you go to relieve yourself at night, with a flashlight. If I did ever have to use it,,well,, I'd rather be judged by six,,,,,,,,. I also kept a 12g pump with slugs for an "at camp" weapon, also always concealed. Rangers don't go searching the camps of those who don't cause problems. Always had good run ins with the Rangers. Good bunch of people.

It was nice to hear a revolver mentioned. I had actually thought about whether a sixgun would be a better choice since its likely to be getting jostled quite a bit in the course of several days worth of hiking. I still haven't figured out a way to carry the thing that would give easy access around a backpack. I suppose I could carry it in the cargo pockets of my shorts, but that would get old to both the gun and my knee. A backpack seems to choke off the natural draw points for any style of belt or shoulder holster, but a pocket doesn't offer the size or comfort neccesary to carry an adaquately powered handgun. The mention of a shotgun is interesting as well. I'd actually thought about taking a cut-down (18" barrel) single shot 12 ga in the pack as a camp gun, but if I could find a way to mount it externally I wouldn't have to worry about handgun carry issues. Hmmmmm..... too much to consider. Keep the ideas flowing, I'm enjoying this.
Scatmanblues

Actually, Scatmanblues, the majority of handguns suitable for changing a bear's mind are revolvers. (Whatever happened to the AutoMag???)

I think even Cooper once reluctantly admitted that, despite his love for the 1911, he carried a .44 Magnum in bear country.

I was definitely punchy last night when I mused that you could get yourself a large hoagie roll, slice it open, and carry your gun there. No one would notice that your sandwich wasn't what it appeared to be.

Dillon sells day planners and briefcases with hidden holsters. I'm surprised no one has jumped on the idea of a backpack with something similar.


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If God didn't want us to own guns, why did He make the 1911?

You guys are giving me just what I wanted -not only good reasons to buy new gear, but reasons to buy a new gun to put in that gear! I've been trying to find a reason to buy a revolver now that I've got 5 autos in the safe. A .44 magnum would be a bit bulky, but I agree that it's probably what would be neccesary to stop -rather than piss off- a bear. The fanny pack is a great idea. I guess, having been indoctrinated for so long that fanny-packs are a bad idea when trying to conceal, that I forgot about the fact that I already wear one almost all the time when hiking anyway and no one cares or notices. Now, back to the revolver stuff. How much difference do you think a 357 and a 44 would have on a bear? As much as I'd love to have a .44, I would get much more use and practice out of a .357 since my roommate also has one and we could split reloading costs, etc. I would think a .357 with a powerful hunting load would be better than a .45, but how much so? Guess I'm changing the topic a little, but I think the fanny pack answers my first question, and now it's just a matter of what to put in it.
Scatmanblues

The .44 is a more powerful round, few will dispute that. However, any pistol round, even the big .44, is a poor bear stopper compared to a rifle or shotgun. So you`d be better off with the biggest pistol round you can shoot accurately. "Accurately" is the key phrase here since if you just make a lot of noise and don`t hit the bear it`ll do you little good. If you happen upon a sow with cubs and she charges, in all probability you`ll get mauled pretty badly, even with hits from the .44 since she`ll be on you so quick that you`ll only be able to get a few shots off before she`s on you, and then, probably take awhile for her to bleed out unless you get a central nervous system shot, which would be damn difficult to do even in the best of circumstances. So if you can shoot the .357 quicker and more accurately, you`d be better off with it over the .44. It`s all up to you and your skill level with your chosen gun.

The aforementioned .45 Ruger Blackhawk is smaller and lighter than a .44 Magnum, and, with the Buffalo Bore ammo, is half again as powerful. If you are really concerned about bears, it is the way to go. However, the threat from bears is not usually that great, and the .45 with big loads is a specialist's piece. It should be worked up to with lots of .357 and .44 experience first.

I let one very experienced pistol instructor shoot the .45, once. He handed it back and did not think it was either fun or funny. It is a whole different world from .45 ACP.

The .357 is considerably more versatile, with cheap .38 plinking ammo readily available. It is best for a first revolver both for its versatility and as a stepping stone to more power. It is as good as a .44 against men -- maybe better, particularly if you shoot it better, which is likely.

I'd go with the .357 first, then a .44, then the big .45 if you decide you like that sort of thing.

Appropriate story,,While camping in Sequoia (or Yosemite,?) with the family, my wife and oldest daughter went to the bathrooms at night about 100 yds from our campsite. They took a flashlight but no gun, inspite of me telling them too. It was dark but they could see the lights at the baths and didn't use the flashlight. As they were walking in the dark my daughter got a real eerie feeling of something walked past her, but she couldn't make it out, but told my wife that she was real scared! When they got to the baths, there was a women there all upset and telling a ranger that a bear had walked past her as she walked out of the bathroom. the ranger asked her where did it go and as my wife walked up, she said, "right down that path" that my wife and daughter just walked up. The bear had walked right past them!
She never left the campsite again at night with out me with her, and ARMED!!

[This message has been edited by 173abn (edited 11-01-2001).]

on teh thought of a Ruger in .45 with buffolo bore ammo. if i was in the market for a "trail gun" i'd be looking not at a black hawk but a Vaquero. trust me those fixed sights are MUCH better on a gun for hiking or long distance trailrides.

i carried a (borrowed) bobbed off "sheriff model" style BH on a hike once, every time i took it out of the fannypack to wipe it down at night (blued,not my choice for this use, like i said a borrowed gun) the sights caught on something. NOT something i would like to contemplate happening if i ever needed to pull the gun for cause!!

best Ruger single action i've seen for carrying concealed was someting the same friend later had made up, a 3" SS vaquero with "Birdshead" grips and the rear surface of the front blade angled so as to reduce risk of the sight catching anything on the way out. he had also had the gun beadblasted or some such (never got a chace to ask) to cut the glare, and make it less noticeable. nothing like a shiny gun to draw attention.


well anyway, if you DO decide to go teh Ruger with Buffalo Bore .45LC ammo route consider a vaquero variation.

also unless you HAVE to carry concealed, there are surplus style holsters on the market, that would allow easy carry of a 1911.

just my experience an take on things as limited as it is.

Originally posted by DHMeieio:
This is a great way to carry. Get an REI or other logo-bearing fanny pack, not one of the plain black holster fanny packs that screams "gun."

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Along with photographers vests this might scream "gun" to other CCW holders. Who cares? The average Joe or Jane doesn't pay that much attention. We are not breaking the law. All we have to do is conceal the weapon. I wear a photog vest a lot and have never had anyone act as if they knew I was carrying. Hell, I have gone out with a J-frame in a back pocket of jeans with part of the grip sticking out. No one even notices or at least they don't say or do anything different. It is just us, the pistol carrying public, that notices. I think these concerns are highly over rated. Only the tactical thinking among us notice these things and we are very few.

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"Even the most normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats"
Mencken

You can indeed be fast with a single action revolver like the blackhawk or vaquero, but it almost requires two hands and decent motor skills to work (first shot is easy, draw on cocking, but subsequent are like I said). You might not have two hands and will definitely have impaired motor skills if you are actually in gross fear for yours and/or your family's lives. Double action is great even if the bear is on top of you and u can't get two hands on the gun, 6 fast shots. If you get a little trigger work done you can have a real nice double action revolver. Some smith&wessons I have felt are incredible, especially a colt anaconda I groped. You'll pay a premium for that Colt, but the used (don't buy it new please) S&W you can get relatively cheap. And if you want to use it for hunting later or paper punching you can always hand cock it anyhow.


Matt

edited because I fergotted to check fer grammer mistakes before i hitted "submit now"

[This message has been edited by BeasTboyz (edited 11-06-2001).]