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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071123/ap_on_re_us/firefighters_terrorism

Firefighter help on terrorism

WASHINGTON - Firefighters in major cities are being trained to take on a new role as lookouts for terrorism, raising concerns of eroding their standing as American icons and infringing on people's privacy.

Unlike police, firefighters and emergency medical personnel don't need warrants to access hundreds of thousands of homes and buildings each year, putting them in a position to spot behavior that could indicate terrorist activity or planning.

But there are fears that they could lose the faith of a skeptical public by becoming the eyes of the government, looking for suspicious items such as building blueprints or bomb-making manuals or materials.

Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Americans have given up some of their privacy rights in an effort to prevent future strikes. The government monitors phone calls and e-mails; people who fly have their belongings searched before boarding and are limited in what they can carry; and some people have trouble traveling because their names are similar to those on terrorist watch lists.

The American Civil Liberties Union says using firefighters to gather intelligence is another step in that direction. Mike German, a former FBI agent who is now national security policy counsel to the ACLU, said the concept is dangerously close to the Bush administration's 2002 proposal to have workers with access to private homes — such as postal carriers and telephone repairmen — report suspicious behavior to the FBI.
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When going to private residences, for example, they are told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States; unusual chemicals or other materials that seem out of place; ammunition, firearms or weapons boxes; surveillance equipment; still and video cameras; night-vision goggles; maps, photos, blueprints; police manuals, training manuals, flight manuals; and little or no furniture other than a bed or mattress.
 

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subscriber said:
.... When going to private residences, for example, they are told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States
Sounds like the entire staff at the New York Times.
 

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I hate to break it to the Department of Homeland Insecurity (pun intended), but if they are going to change the job descriptions for fire fighters to include these types of things, then they damn well WILL need warrants to enter a residential dwelling unless that dwelling is engulped in a massive fireball. They are agents of the government and when they begin to model their behavior toward crime control instead of fire security and response, then they will be subject to the same requirements of police.
 

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Remind anyone else of Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradburry? Scary stuff.
 

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Nothing wrong with anyone reporting suspicious activity to authorities. Couldnt care less about this.
 

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This was posted elsewhere. According to a person claiming to be a firefighter this has been done before Homeland Security was around. Firefighters don't just enter homes, HOWEVER if you call 911 and they respond, say to a heart attack call, and they see something in the home they may notify the local PD or other agency about what they saw. So, if you have a still going in the kitchen or a meth lab in the dinning room, be wary. If you have old copies of Shooters Bible laying around they probably will walk right by. (Unless you live in Chicago.)

I would also bet that the firefighters would contact child services if they saw something bad in the house as well.
 

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volsbear said:
... but if they are going to change the job descriptions for fire fighters to include these types of things, then they damn well WILL need warrants ...
Excellent point.

The scary thing here is that our government thinks firearm owners are scary criminals, and that our ammunition and firearms are "materials that seem out of place" in a private home.
 

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Stay Alert

I think it is everybodys duty to be on the look out for the above mentioned stuff. These people don't play games. I guess if I was going door to door selling books or whatever and saw boxes of guns on the floor, you bet your sweet as* i would turn it in. That person may be only a collector but than maybe not.:)
 

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Nd!
 

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TwoShot said:
I think it is everybodys duty to be on the look out for the above mentioned stuff. These people don't play games. I guess if I was going door to door selling books or whatever and saw boxes of guns on the floor, you bet your sweet as* i would turn it in. That person may be only a collector but than maybe not.:)
Umm..."turn it in" to whom? The "Man"? KGB? Gestapo?
I have a constitutional right to have all the "boxes of guns on the floor" that I want, and it's none of anybody's business, including yours!
That is precisely how the nazis and Stalin were successful in gaining control of "the people" is by creating an atmosphere of mistrust and fear and getting folks to spy on their neighbors.
 

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Taxvictim said:
Excellent point.

The scary thing here is that our government thinks firearm owners are scary criminals, and that our ammunition and firearms are "materials that seem out of place" in a private home.
Yeah. That befuddles me. In a country founded on revolution and distrust of government, gun owners are now considered taboo by the left.

People need to read "Common Sense" or transcripts of the Continental Congress to understand what tyranny is. If we continue to surrender our rights, we'll be back to a tyranical rule. People never seem to learn.

What's that old saying....."people who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it." Or something like that.
 

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SistemaTodd said:
Umm..."turn it in" to whom? The "Man"? KGB? Gestapo?
I have a constitutional right to have all the "boxes of guns on the floor" that I want, and it's none of anybody's business, including yours!
That is precisely how the nazis and Stalin were successful in gaining control of "the people" is by creating an atmosphere of mistrust and fear and getting folks to spy on their neighbors.
.

Sorry if I offended you,actualy i don't give a darn about how many guns you own.
I think you read something into my post that was not there.
 

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TwoShot said:
I think it is everybodys duty to be on the look out for the above mentioned stuff. These people don't play games. I guess if I was going door to door selling books or whatever and saw boxes of guns on the floor, you bet your sweet as* i would turn it in. That person may be only a collector but than maybe not.



You wrote this whats to missunderstand "you bet your sweet as* i would turn it in. That person may be only a collector but than maybe not.
How many guns I have is my concern not yours or the Gov.
 

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A couple of you boys have to chill out. Nobody cares how many guns you own sure as hell i don't. It is none of anybodys damn business. I'll tell ya what so this doesn't get out of hand and everbody gets pissed at one another, let me change the wording as not to offend us gun owners, if i saw rocket launchers,bomb making materials,maps,etc.it would most likely need to be reported to the police or FBI or whoever.
Ok got the idea now.:)
 

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Hey you don't like it call one of your friends to take yer sorry dying butt to the ER...the firefighters I know would rather not be bothered anyway...Call a cab... take a bus.... ride yer bike if your so paranoid:eek:
 

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Im a volunteer ff and it would have to depend on the situation to call in the locals/state boys/feds. If i forcibly entered a home its for 3 reasons... 1. medical emergency 2. fire 3. find out someones been with my girlfriend (all jokes aside) If i enter a burning residence and see bags of fertilizer or barrels of any type or rpgs. Im pulling out, making damn sure everyone else is out, and making sure commanding officer is notified. We'd handle the scene as a hazardous materials scene and probably would call city/state police. It shouldnt be the fire depts responsibility to police. Though I agree we should be cautious and keep a watchful eye... thats everyones responsibility.

its common sense that if something doesnt look/feel right, tell someone.

i know i wouldnt care how many guns someone had if i went into a home. As long as they dont pull it on me... im just there doing what i was called to do.

its unfortunate that big cities are resorting to using the most trusted profession to do something dirty.
 

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They have done this before with UPS, mailman, power guy, etc. It will be in the headlines for a few weeks then slowly die out.
 

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clarion44 said:
Im a volunteer ff and it would have to depend on the situation to call in the locals/state boys/feds.
Of course. Its just common sense. You observe the circumstances and you exercise your judgement as to what your civic duty is.

If I look into my neighbor Achmeds window and see that his "prayer group" is practicing hand to hand combat techniques in his furnitureless living room and playing Microsoft Flight Simulator on his PC Im gonna notify the authorities.

If that offends the ACLU, CAIR or anyone else too out of it to care about the safety of my country well thats a cryin shame.

Some of you guys are acting like they are gonna come kicking in doors if a firefighter notices you own a gun or have a nice framed copy of the US Bill of Rights. Really specific things IN COMBINATION are referenced in the article as things to take a closer look at.
 

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Kimber4Ever said:
Remind anyone else of Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradburry? Scary stuff.
nice job! Forgot all about it. Ray Bradburry is probably the least liked of the great American writers. It just bothers people too much to look in the mirror.
 

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Thanks to all of the Firemen, Police, EMT, Etc. It is one hell of a job.:rock:
They have enuff to do to when they get called out. But there eyes are always open.
 
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