[idriller]

Installed a 22KW generac several years ago. Best investment we ever made.

 

[magazineman]

The math for a lot of you guys is different than it is for us. We could do a week or more without electricity pretty easily. And we'd only lose a partial fridge of food.

And I sure wouldn't run a generator 24/7. For some folks, especially in rural areas, a generator make sense, but it doesn't for us.

Note that the longest power outage in San Diego history was the Great Southwest Blackout in 2011.

It was a one day event. We ate the ice cream immediately later we cooked in the fireplace, used the kerosene lamps & candles a bit, got updates on the car radio, then power was back on the next day.

My kid was 9. It was a learning experience / adventure for her. And my wife is from war-torn Laos. So being without power is just a familiar inconvenience for her.

The Edge-Of-The-City suburban situation is not the same as with the farm / ranch zones.

 

[BBBBill]

...Not too likely to expect solar panels to survive a hurricane...

I've had the beginnings of an idea floating around in the back of my noggin to develop some easy way of removing/storingsolar panels in a protected space when bad weather is expected.

 

[jtq]

I've had the beginnings of an idea floating around in the back of my noggin to develop some easy way of removing/storingsolar panels in a protected space when bad weather is expected.

Heck, I question if I'd be able to maneuver hurricane shutters around, from my garage, to hang them up on the windows, and if I'd have enough space in my garage to store them.

I can't imagine what it would take to remove/store solar panels that are on my roof.

The solar panel guys knock on my door perhaps quarterly, but at least every six months. After years of this going on, my wife and daughter have repeatedly "encouraged" me not to debate the value of solar panel installation with these door to door sales people.

As much as I'm not a fan of solar panels, post Hurricane Sally, only a CAT 1, on 16 Sep 20, but a storm where the eye passed directly over my neighborhood, one of the houses in the area ended up loosing a bunch of shingles off a section of their roof. They required a blue tarp for several weeks as they waited for a roofer to come, but the section with solar panels appeared undamaged.

 

[Colt Carson]

Seems like I did see a house down there where Ian hit that did have solar panels still on the roof.

 

[Ranger4]

Very good point.
For years I had a fairly large Westinghouse portable generator with an Alliance transfer box in the garage. One cord to the transfer box and then flip all the breakers over. Worked decent for everything except central air. Had about $1300 in the whole set up.
But then I started working 3rd shift and my wife is a little thing. No way she was going to drag that gennie outside, hook it up and get it started at 2am.
Yes it is a bit more money for the convience, however it isn't a total wash. The increase in the value of my house just jumped in $$$.

Actually, they do not add much to the value of a house. Just look at any real estate appraisal. You will see line items for things like a storm cellar and storage building, but generally a whole house generator is not a good investment, despite what all the people selling generators will say and the articles they "sponsor". Here is a recent report for example:

You don't always recoup the full value of your investment when you make improvements to your property. According to Remodeling Magazine's 2018 Cost Vs. Value Report, a $12,860 generator increases resale value by $6,940, which means you'll get 54% of your investment back. Is a Standby Generator Really Worth It? | Millionacres (fool.com)

Convenience is the key, but there is more to the answer. For example, where I live my state does a tax assessment every year on my home and my taxes can be adjusted each year. If I go to the city and get a permit to put in a generator or build a shed in the yard, that automatically increases the value of my home, on paper. But my taxes are based on the value of my home, so if I add a $10,000 shed or generator, the value just went up $10,000. That means I will pay more taxes on my house every year from now own, if I live there 30 years, I pay it each year. So, the increased taxes can exceed far more than what I thought an increase might be from adding the whole house gen set.

On the other hand, a portable get set, is personal property. They should never be taxed. You can wire a portable gen set where you simply switch it on, and flip a switch taking your city power off. No muss, no fuss and no taxes.

Also, the last portable gen set that I bought from Cabelas is battery operated. It actually has a remote or you can switch in on at the gen set.

Just saying, one of the big selling points by generator companies is that they increase the value of your home, and if you live at a place where power goes off often, it is a bigger deal than if you live in a city or place with a mild climate.

But for people undecided about the big expense and long term maintenance, and those added costs from people to come out and maintain the gen set, it is just wise to consider all the factors. Once again, just do the math, if the device costs $10,000 and you live there 20 years and you could have left that money in the 401K or investment plan, you lose the value of that money. The true costs looks like this>

------After investing for 20 years at 6% interest, your $10,000 investment will have grown to $32,071----

So your $10K gen set costs you $10K plus the loss of $22,071 in interest or gains. Here is the calculator so peolpe can figure the actual cost for themselves. $10,000 at 20% Interest for 20 Years (calculateme.com)

People need to know...

 

[Fastball]

Actually, they do not add much to the value of a house. Just look at any real estate appraisal. You will see line items for things like a storm cellar and storage building, but generally a whole house generator is not a good investment, despite what all the people selling generators will say and the articles they "sponsor". Here is a recent report for example:

You don't always recoup the full value of your investment when you make improvements to your property. According to Remodeling Magazine's 2018 Cost Vs. Value Report, a $12,860 generator increases resale value by $6,940, which means you'll get 54% of your investment back. Is a Standby Generator Really Worth It? | Millionacres (fool.com)

Convenience is the key, but there is more to the answer. For example, where I live my state does a tax assessment every year on my home and my taxes can be adjusted each year. If I go to the city and get a permit to put in a generator or build a shed in the yard, that automatically increases the value of my home, on paper. But my taxes are based on the value of my home, so if I add a $10,000 shed or generator, the value just went up $10,000. That means I will pay more taxes on my house every year from now own, if I live there 30 years, I pay it each year. So, the increased taxes can exceed far more than what I thought an increase might be from adding the whole house gen set.

On the other hand, a portable get set, is personal property. They should never be taxed. You can wire a portable gen set where you simply switch it on, and flip a switch taking your city power off. No muss, no fuss and no taxes.

Also, the last portable gen set that I bought from Cabelas is battery operated. It actually has a remote or you can switch in on at the gen set.

Just saying, one of the big selling points by generator companies is that they increase the value of your home, and if you live at a place where power goes off often, it is a bigger deal than if you live in a city or place with a mild climate.

But for people undecided about the big expense and long term maintenance, and those added costs from people to come out and maintain the gen set, it is just wise to consider all the factors. Once again, just do the math, if the device costs $10,000 and you live there 20 years and you could have left that money in the 401K or investment plan, you lose the value of that money. The true costs looks like this>

------After investing for 20 years at 6% interest, your $10,000 investment will have grown to $32,071----

So your $10K gen set costs you $10K plus the loss of $22,071 in interest or gains. Here is the calculator so peolpe can figure the actual cost for themselves. $10,000 at 20% Interest for 20 Years (calculateme.com)

People need to know...

My parents' house just sold last October and all 3 of the people who put contracts on the house loved the idea of having that Kohler Dad had installed at the house.

There was a bit of a bidding war, so to speak and I know it wasn't all about the whole house generator by itself. House sold for over $18K asking price.

Technically,..... yeah, it might not of added to the "value" of the house, but I guarantee it was ONE of the factors that helped drive the push for the final selling price

 

[Ranger4]

My parents' house just sold last October and all 3 of the people who put contracts on the house loved the idea of having that Kohler Dad had installed at the house.

There was a bit of a bidding war, so to speak and I know it wasn't all about the whole house generator by itself. House sold for over $18K asking price.

Technically,..... yeah, it might not of added to the "value" of the house, but I guarantee it was ONE of the factors that helped drive the push for the final selling price

In real estate sales there is a concept called marketing time and an expect time when a property is likely to sell. Marketing time did not really apply the last two years in the United States, because there is such a housing shortage that people would by anything at an inflated price and the buying frenzy was fueled by the fear of interest rates going up, which they did.

My daughter bought one and sold one, same deal as your parents, the one they sold had several offers in just a few days and sold in a couple weeks. The one they bought was inflated, they paid about 25% more than the similar houses in that addition. Both Realtors they dealt with confirmed that people were in a buying frenzy. They sold theirs for more than it was worth and paid more than the house they bought was worth, but, they beat the interest rate hike. The downside is home property taxes are based on selling price, so they are stuck with much higher taxes for as long as they own the house.

In a normal market, the whole house generator would be something that might shorten marketing time. Kind of like an inground swimming pool, they normally do not pay for themselves, but have a selling point, the kids look at the pool and force their parents to buy that one, it sells quicker.

So, whether the cost of the generator was recovered, no one knows, and the total cost and loss of investment income probably does not matter as every one is happy with the deal. Analyzing it in advance may matter to people who are thinking about the event. Somebody say 20 years from retirement might be better off in the example I gave above. The $10,000 for the genset is gone and the $22K they would have earned in investment income is gone. If they continued to live in the same house, that money is gone as well as any accruing income they would have had on the $32K they would have had at the 20 year point. Investors and CPAs see the difference of having that extra $32K for retirement, most people do not plan that far ahead. But it only matters to people before they make that decision.

Just depends on the person and how they want to spend their money. Every dime you spend for guns or boats or anything is something that takes money out of your eventual retirement stash. Any $10K purchase is going to take the same $32K out of the retirement fund after 20 years, just the math. Some of us spend $20K-$30K on boats to enjoy while we are younger, those take a lot out of a potential retirement stash and they are absolutely not investments, just a fun way to spend our time. And Bass Pro is happy to take our money. LOL

 

[magazineman]

Colt Carson --------------- Those solar panels you saw after Ian probably came from someone else's roof!

 

[Ranger4]

My brother in law, lives in Cape Coral, They have family further inland in Ft Myers and went there for the surge. His house is only 2 blocks to the water and most of the houses there are destroyed. His frame stayed in place but his roof is gone. He goes over each day and cleans debris off of his house and yard. We have only texted as he does not have good cell coverage. Today he advised that there is no power anywhere close. We assumed he had a generator, apparently people in that area of Florida do not have generators. Their elevation is 9 feet above sea level, so if there is a hurricane and high water, they just leave, he has done that before. They already have boarding and just put it in place and just leave.

He is retired from Homeland Security, a gun guy, and retired military, I was surprised he did not have any type of portable generator. And he is not seeing any lights or power while there so I assume no one else does either.

I guess it make sense not to have a generator if you are in a flood zone, because your electric lines may be underwater and would ground out anyway and you would not want to be pumping power into the water. We saw this same issue when south Texas flooded a few years ago, generators were not used because people had water inside. The lowest electric outlet kills the power when the water rises.

If you had a generator, it would need to be elevated anyway. I did experience a flood in 2015. Water foot 2 feet deep in the shop where I kept my portable generators. When we saw the water rising, we just pulled them up to higher ground., so no problem. We had no water in the house, so they worked fine.

So, I guess anyone putting in a gen set needs to consider any flooding issues. You would not want to put one at the flood level, and if in a flood zone, possibly would not want one at all. FWIS

 

[USMM guy]

The math for a lot of you guys is different than it is for us. We could do a week or more without electricity pretty easily. And we'd only lose a partial fridge of food.

And I sure wouldn't run a generator 24/7. For some folks, especially in rural areas, a generator make sense, but it doesn't for us.

Note that the longest power outage in San Diego history was the Great Southwest Blackout in 2011.

It was a one day event. We ate the ice cream immediately later we cooked in the fireplace, used the kerosene lamps & candles a bit, got updates on the car radio, then power was back on the next day.

My kid was 9. It was a learning experience / adventure for her. And my wife is from war-torn Laos. So being without power is just a familiar inconvenience for her.

The Edge-Of-The-City suburban situation is not the same as with the farm / ranch zones.

If you are happy with the arrangements that you have, then you are good to go. But you might want to read Katherine Blunt's book. California Burning, Pacific gas and Electric. Pretty interesting and a must read for Californians IMO.

 

[Colt Carson]

I think the Conspiracy Theorists and the Preppers aren’t considered as far out there as they once were.
Different subject… I was surprised that so many houses in Cape Coral and Fort Myers are built on a slab at ground level when they are just a few feet above the adjacent water. From Google Maps Satellite it looks like thousands of ground level houses built directly on miles of water canals. Where I live, anyone directly on the water is built up on pilings or a hill.

 

[Ranger4]

I think the Conspiracy Theorists and the Preppers aren’t considered as far out there as they once were.
Different subject… I was surprised that so many houses in Cape Coral and Fort Myers are built on a slab at ground level when they are just a few feet above the adjacent water. From Google Maps Satellite it looks like thousands of ground level houses built directly on miles of water canals. Where I live, anyone directly on the water is built up on pilings or a hill.

Yes my brother in laws house shows an elevation of 9 feet. His son lives a few blocks away showing the same elevation. Those housing additions are built so that there is a waterway in place of every other street, so nearly everyone can park their boat in water at their house. That is the way thousands of people can live with access to the ocean by boat. They are not mansions, just simple homes. Thousands of people can afford them and migrate to Florida, but they come with the risk being so low.

There is a discussion on CNN as to whether they should be able to rebuild. Same deal with every house on an ocean, if there is a surge, they get destroyed. The problem is they say the loss is $400 billion dollars. How much federal tax dollars should go to private homes, and how much tax money should be spent on bridges to islands that will probably wash away again in the future. The CNN coverage showed angry people claiming that it was the governments job to come save them and rebuild for them, and alleging that there is racial discrimination in the way the electricity is being repaired. I call BS. They repair the power lines in ways that get essential service on first, then the most people, then whoever is left.

Some of these folks are blaming the government because they built on the ocean and a hurricane took their house. They now claim the government owes them a new house.

 

[Swift1]

I really don't give a rats about cost. I can scrimp on other things. When the power goes down, and just some seconds later, it is back from the generator, it is great. My house is very well insulated. We've gone 6 weeks in the hot weather with no AC - high 90's and low 100's never really hot in the house - shades on the sun side, airing in the cool morning. Cold is different, and it gets to 40 below. It is simply a question of controlling what you can, Not a lot different than having a fire extinguisher or a carry permit. I have one, will always have one, and am looking into increasing the LP quantity.
BTW, we have flooding, but to reach my place, Calling Noah! The county would be deep under.

 

[Swift1]

Dunno how, but duplicate deleted.

 

[Colt Carson]

Yes my brother in laws house shows an elevation of 9 feet. His son lives a few blocks away showing the same elevation. Those housing additions are built so that there is a waterway in place of every other street, so nearly everyone can park their boat in water at their house. That is the way thousands of people can live with access to the ocean by boat. They are not mansions, just simple homes. Thousands of people can afford them and migrate to Florida, but they come with the risk being so low.

There is a discussion on CNN as to whether they should be able to rebuild. Same deal with every house on an ocean, if there is a surge, they get destroyed. The problem is they say the loss is $400 billion dollars. How much federal tax dollars should go to private homes, and how much tax money should be spent on bridges to islands that will probably wash away again in the future. The CNN coverage showed angry people claiming that it was the governments job to come save them and rebuild for them, and alleging that there is racial discrimination in the way the electricity is being repaired. I call BS. They repair the power lines in ways that get essential service on first, then the most people, then whoever is left.

Some of these folks are blaming the government because they built on the ocean and a hurricane took their house. They now claim the government owes them a new house.

I don’t know what the official flood elevation is in that area of Florida, but if people had a house in a flood zone and didn’t carry flood insurance, it should be their loss. It was a gamble some people probably took, and lost. They could debate with the insurance company whether wind or water destroyed their house. If folks aren’t in a flood zone and get seawater in their house, I’m ok with them getting assistance. I believe after Hurricane Katrina, they raised what was considered flood zone. Even though I’m not in a flood zone, I still carry flood insurance. And the cost is increasing steeply. If I had a hurricane like the Houston area got several years ago (30 inches of rain), I could have water in my house. So I carry the flood insurance because I don’t like gambling with my home. I just wonder where the cost will level out, if ever.

 

[Biscut]

I'm in the NorthEast and have had a 16kw LP Generac. It has been reliable. It runs the important stuff for us when the power goes out. Overall great decision to get one.

 

[CRT2]

I live in Punta Gorda, FL. Elevation 15 feet and my Lanai and pool are in the “flood zone, but not the house”. I have homeowners insurance, flood insurance and hurricane insurance. Just spent $5,000.00 to have trees moved from property to the street for pickup by the County - expect within a month or two. No dump sites open. Insurance will give me around $1,000.00 for this effort. No mortgage so not required to have insurance but would be stupid not to. Those that don’t - well, they ain’t to bright!😎 Now looking into a generator and battery backup system.

 

[ladderman4]

Being a FF in NE Florida and a member of a USAR TF, here is my input. Sorry for Length!😑
If you are not a licensed electrician, leave big GenSets to the pros. You should also get an annual maintenance agreement with a service provider. Some HVAC companies provide this. So, service your AC and Genset Annually. Also, based on the size and "loading " of the generator, you should have a fuel source to meet the need "TIME". Propane is the best option. Never goes bad. NG could have service interruption so consider that. One post said his 500 gallon propane lasted a while.
If your in a flood prone area, make sure you fuel tank is anchored, e en if burried. Even a full tank (which is actually 80% full), will float away in time of flooding. And yes, the piping breaks!!
It is an investment so, if on the Fl coast, near or on the ocean or low ground, You would most likely and should evac inland or out of state. Just because you have your own power doesn't preclude your house from destruction.
If you have frequent power outages with prolonged restoration of service, then get the whole house power with a permanent genset. Just remember, if the house is destroyed by storms,, so the gen set. With that said. A smaller portable unit (get the dual fuel thats will run on propane also) will usually support fridges and small appliances. But remember to KEEP IT OUTSIDE with exhaust blowing away from your house. Least you push the dangerous CO into the structure or heat from exhaust ignites the structure.....either way is bad. I have personally seen both. AND NEVER refuel a hot generator. YOU SHOULD HAVE A CARBON MONOXIDE DETECTION DEVICE IN YOUR HOUSE WHEN RUNNING A PORTABLE GENERATOR!!! Yes, even with the genset outside!!!
I live on the intracoastal so I used a portable to power basic needs only. And only run an hour or two out of ten hours. Conserves fuel. Fridges will stay cold and freezers frozen for several hours if not days if not opened frequently. After Matthew, we were without power for over a week. My 5000 kw portable saved our food. We have several freezers / fridges. I'm looking into a Permanent Genset now.
Food for thought. Portable generators generate what's referred to as "dirty power". If the unit is older, not serviced, then the electrical power coming out of it, is not "exact" in voltage, current, hertz, ect. This can damage newer appliances with computer type settings. Also electronic appliances computers ect. So portable gensets have a lot of cons. Permanent gensets that are serviced annually is your best option.
Inverters and battery's from your vehicle's will charge cells, tablets or computers. If you have a deep freezer. Keep it full as possible. Even if filling jugs of water and taking up space. This can keep food frozen for days and provide extra water when needed. Always put a coin on top of a frozen cup of water. If you return after an extended time period, power failure with restoration could thaw and refreeze food. A coin in the bottom of cup with frozen water means food should be discarded an freezer cleaned thoroughly. Lots of good info on generator sites and prepper forums. Just please remember to evac if authorities advise to. Earlier means less traffic. And always contact your local FD or Emergency Mgt for printed materials that will help you plan.
🙏🙏Prayers to all the lives lost and to all those affected by Ian. Americans have the strongest resolve i know. Keep the faith 🙏, help one another...Carry On!!!!😎

 

[Swift1]

In regard to thawed food: Had a small freezer with a lot of meat accidentally unplugged by an electrician doing other work and not noticed for a few days. The meat was all thawed and still cool to the touch. I refroze it till I could decide on the best way to dispose of it. I decided to cook it and give it to my dogs. Ran batches in the slow cooker every time the previous batch was consumed. Greatly enjoyed, coats are wonderful and no ill effects. Granted, I was not in an emergency situation, but I'm much happier having fed the boys a wonderful treat than having had to drag all that meat to the dump.