[Wild Romanian]

Gentlemen: I sincerely need and value your professional opinion on a reliablity test just ran on th 1911 v/s the Glock. I also ran this test on quite a few other handguns. After you read and evalute my test let me know if you yourself think that it is valid. What follows is the test.

I recently test fired the 1911 and the Glock both with defective ammo (high primers) and with empty cases that also had high primers. Many other pistols were also tested with empty cases and high primers only not with loaded ammo.

Yes I know that performing the 1911 v/s Glock test is extremely dangerous with live ammo. But in the interest of science I wanted to know if under extreme circustances the two pistols in question would function and fire with ammo that would have weak primers or very hard primers.

The 1911 came through with flying colors firing all of the defective ammo and all of the empty cases that had only been loaded with high primers.

The Glock .45 along with two 9mm Glocks failed 100 per cent to fire either the defective ammo or the empty high primed cases.

My question to you is this. I believe this proves that the 1911 has the superior ignition system over the Glock. Also that the 1911 can be relied upon to ignite all commercial and military ammo along with some reloads that may have not had their primers bottomed out when seating them.

The Glock on the other hand must have the proper ammo to work which does not include all military and commercial ammo. I base this statement on some info that I received from other people that had their Glocks misfire with both commercial and military ammo.

What do you all think. Were my tests valid and have they proved that that the Glock has a weak ignition system as compared to the 1911?

Your comments will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much. W.R.

 

[Shooter Ed]

I don't see how test firing guns with improperly loaded ammo proves much. The best way to compare reliability would be with reliable ammo. But,that's been done a few times and I believe both 1911's and Glocks did well.

Ed.

 

[10-Ring]

How poor are you reloading skills if you have to rely on rounds w/ poorly seated primers? No slam, it's just that firearms are built to certain tolerances and desinged to function w/in those tolerances. If you require a gun to work on defective ammo, doesn't that assume then that you have a coiniciding defective firearm?

 

[dsk]

The results don't surprise me, as the 1911 has always had a reputation for having an ignition system that is a drastic overkill. It's known among gunsmiths that the trigger pull can easily be made lighter by going with a 19lb. mainspring, as opposed to the factory 23lb. unit. The light titanium hammers are also made possible by the leverage they have over the firing pin's inertia.

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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1

 

[RickB]

Your test reminds me of the gunsmith who "tuned" a 1911 to feed empty cases, because of the often-heard claim that "It'll even feed empty cases." Guess what, the gun would feed ONLY empty cases. Your test proves that the 1911 has a greater margin of reliability built into its ignition system, but that doesn't address the more relevant test of how guns work with good ammunition.

 

[dsk]

Originally posted by RickB:
Your test reminds me of the gunsmith who "tuned" a 1911 to feed empty cases, because of the often-heard claim that "It'll even feed empty cases." Guess what, the gun would feed ONLY empty cases.

Yup, I once had a STS Commander that was totally unreliable out of the box, even with ball ammo. After hearing the "empty case" story I tried running a mag of empty cases through it just for the sheer hell of it. Sure enough, it worked! That proved to me that some so-called "experts" don't really know what they're talking about.



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D. Kamm
USGI M1911/M1911A1 Pistols Website
http://www.geocities.com/M1911_M1911A1

 

[HadEmAll]

He's toned this post down from its original look on one of the other forums, where it was obviously just anti-Glock BS. He got laughed and ridiculed off the post. Guess he's looking for approval wherever he can find it. In the original post it was his bad reloads that started the chain of events. He claimed to have duplicated the test exactly for the Glocks but I think the whole thing smacks of "I think 1911's are wonderful and Glocks suck and I'm going to prove it by god". Some people just aren't happy unless they're attacking another person's equipment or pontificating.

[This message has been edited by HadEmAll (edited 11-08-2001).]

 

[h_tolley]

I don't mind WR's posts, just sometimes use a grain of salt.
I have experienced light primer strikes on both glocks and steyrs with hard-primered 9mm. I have never had any problem with my H&K P7M13 which is also stiker fired. I have never had any problems with any hammer-fired pistols.
I don't have any problem with glocks or any other striker fired pistols, but I carry a hammer-fired one for the overkill in ignition.
I know you are to keep your weapon spotless and well-lubed, but my carry gun can get lint and sometimes strings from my clothes on it. It would be a shame if lint in the chamber caused a failure to fire.
It may not be a realistic scenario but I actually would be interested in seeing how different pistols perform when lightly linted up. I sold my Glock so only have a Steyr M9 and a bunch of 1911s but I might try this one.

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-Hal

 

[BB]

A valid question is whether you think being able to fire defective ammo is a good thing.

 

[feedramp]

Without examination of your methodology, I can't say if your test demonstrates your premise under the conditions specified or not.

If we assume that standard precautions were taken to minimize random chance, and that applicable statistical substitutions were made to account for the the random variations that were allowed in the methodology and environment, and methodology used known and accepted techniques and equipment under known and accepted conditions, and records were kept in the same manner, then I 'd say that you would have proved your premise under the conditions stated.

Since the given initial conditions (high primers, defective ammo) are highly unusual for this caliber, the test and its results would be more of interest to designers and fundamental research workers than casual users.

However, it does lend support to those who contend that the 1911 ignition system is more reliable than that of the Glock under extreme conditions.

 

[AndABeer]

GIGO

 

[7th Fleet]

I think that this is more of a question of your reloading skills than on the worth of either weapon.

7th

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