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Discussion Starter #1
Hey I've come to the conclusion that my tactical reloads are taking me too long during an IDPA CoF.

For practice I've been using a timer: at the buzz swap magazines from belt to gun, store the partial in my vest pocket and then fire one shot. Most of my good times are around 3.35 seconds and my best is 3.12 seconds. I don't have much to base this off of, but is this a decent time? I know the IPSC gods can do 1.0 second speed reloads, but that is not really comparing apples to apples.

What speeds can the Masters do a true tac-load? How fast can you do one, or at least my drill?

Any tips for inprovement?

Thanks, Luther
 

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I've seen 2.5 sec. from regular Masters, hehe, not Super Master, i.e. pro shooters.
 

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I concur. I have seen master-level shooters that seem to do a tac-reload as fast as they can draw. Of the three major areas where most shooters can make big improvements (i.e., shooting, drawing, and reloading) reloading is usually the one that needs the most work (me included).
 

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My usual routine to measure my Tac-loads are as follows.

At the beep, draw and one shot on tgt, tac-load, and one more shot.

Pure time between shots for me is somewhere around 2.5 to 2.8. I'm on the verge of getting Master in IDPA...at least for my little club. I put in a lot of time doing reloads; at home and at the range.

esheato...
 

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Have you experimented with different magazine handling methods?

- Access the spare magazine in the standard weak-hand index finger along spine of magazine grasp. When approaching the gun transfer the magazine to between the middle and index fingers. Grasp the mag in the gun with (or drop mag from gun into) the index finger and thumb of the weak hand. Move hand up to line-up full mag and insert.

- Access the spare magazine in the standard weak-hand index finter along spine of magazine grasp. When approaching the gun keep magazine gripped by thumb and index finger. Open the middle through pinky fingers and eject the magazine into them. Move the hand down and insert the full mag.

- Access the spare magazine by pulling it out of the carrier by grasping it between the middle and index fingers in a syringe style hold. Grasp the mag in the gun with the index finger and thumb of weak hand and remove it. Move hand up to line up full mag and insert similar to method #1.

Have you experimented with different ways to stow the partially full magazine? Some options are:

- In the weak hand pants pocket (front or back).

- In the weak side vest pocket (lower pocket).

- In the waist-band of the pants (usually between the weak side hip bone and belt buckle).

I have seen some folks put the partially spent magazine back in the magazine pouch, but I think this is a bad idea because I would not want to get my second full mag and a partially full magazine confused. I like to keep my mag pouches for full mags only, but each to his own.

Try different options and see what works best for you.

-Vincent
 

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Discussion Starter #6
vincent said:
Have you experimented with different magazine handling methods?


Have you experimented with different ways to stow the partially full magazine? Some options are:


Try different options and see what works best for you.

-Vincent
I've played with a few different magazine handling methods over the years and I find the first method you listed works the best for me. Using that method I can also use my thumb and index finger to rip the mag from the gun if need be. My biggest problem with the mag change part of a tacload is getting the new mag lined up and into the magwell. If I get the new mag lined up with the gun just after I grasp the old mag I can usually do the reload fairly quick. If the new mag isn't perfactly lined up with the magwell my time suffers. ( I guess that is kinda obvious though:rolleyes: ) I played with mag chutes and the like but find they'd only help save an already botched mag change. If the new mag is aligned correctly a mag funnel isn't needed.

From tactical shooting I always stored my partial mags in my rear pants pocket, mainly because all my pants have rear pockets. I've seen guys dump their partial mags into the cargo pockets of BDU style pants, but since I don't wear them that often I never picked that up. For gamming IDPA I wear a photo vest and I've found that dropping the partial mag in a weakside open front pocket is the fastest. I have one pocket on the vest without a flap over it and if i put my wallet and some other junk in there it stays partially open enough to dump my old mag into it. My fastest reloads occur when I basically throw my partial into the pocket, but I need to be careful not to drop that mag without it going into the pocket as I've done that numerous times in practice.

After writing this I think I need to practice my new magazine to mag well alignment some more. Practice practice practice.

-Luther
 

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http://www.psishooting.com
This is one of the smoothest picts of tac loads and RWRs I have seen. Steve is at least a So So shooter :biglaugh: notice how relaxed he is! He helped me quite a bit with advice on my reloads.

For the RWR, IF everything goes perfect, I have gotten to 1.59 unconcealed ONCE (normal is 1.6-1.8 goal is 1.50), True Tac Loads I dont practice as much but are about 1.9 or slightly less, again done perfect!(1.8s are my fastest. Goal is 1.7)

Normal concealed times are in the 1.9s for the RWR and around 2.15 for TL.

BUT in a match you will most probably be moving and your cover will be in the way so you MUST experiment with different positions and how they effect you. I was getting GOOD at doing them a while back and we had a rare stage that called for one but it was kneeling, i didnt think about that at all. Kneeling is SLOWER if your not prepared for it!
Moving correctly I can do them pretty close to unconcealed times.

Also what Vincent told you is very good advice. One thing that helped me a lot was reverse engineering it from the gun. Figure out the way YOU naturally do it then do it that way.

IF you cannot do sub 2 second slide lock or Speed loads, on demand, there is NO WAY your going to TL in that time. RWR adds a min of .5 to that time for a GREAT reload TL ads more! (for me)

First perfect your reload, THEN work on the TL and RWR. Practice until you can complete the SLR in 1.5 or less and the Speedload in 1.25 or less 8 of 10 then work on the others. These numbers look OMINUS I know, but you can do it.

The biggest time factor in the TL and RWR is stowing the mag.
figure that out FIRST. (after you can do sub 2 second SLRs)

Last but not least Start SLOW and make sure you have removed ALL the wasted motion then speed up.

Time saving will come from getting the hand TO the mag and getting the mag TO the gun. (both of those motions should be as FAST as you can do them) when you get to the gun though, SLOW DOWN!

EVERYTHING has to be done RIGHT for it to be sub 2s and you MUST learn to RELAX! That helps A LOT.

HTH
 

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Since IDPA no longer requires TRs, what's the point in doing them quickly, other than the satisfaction of mastering a skill? The only time I do them anymore is on string two of stage three of the classifier - when I have to reload and then move across considerable ground to reach the next shooting position. I THINK I save a fraction of a second by storing the partial mag on the move, rather than doing an RWR behind cover, but I'm not sure mastering the RWR, and doing it all the time, wouldn't be a better use of practice time. When TRs could be specified, I used to practice only the TR, figuring being good at that would get me an advantage over people who didn't practice it much, but since I never HAVE to do it, I usually don't. The RWR is generally faster, and maybe more importantly, harder to screw up.
Before someone says, "hey, it doesn't say anything in the rule book about RWR and TR being interchangeable", I'll say I got that info from an AC/SOI at my SOI class, and I believed him. It's not in the rule book.
 

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IDPA No -longer requires TAC-RELOADS?

When did that happen?

from the FAQ in the back of the book
WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A “TACTICAL RE-LOAD” AND A “MAGAZINE CHANGE WITH RETENTION”? A Tac-Load is done at the gun with the spare magazine being drawn prior to the ejection of the partial magazine from the pistol. A magazine change with retention is done by ejecting the partial magazine, putting it away, and then drawing the full magazine from the pouch. A Tac-Load leaves you with a single shot pistol the minimum amount of time and is considered by most experts to be the “proper” way. If the course of fire specifies a Tac-Load, a magazine change with retention is not acceptable and will incur a procedural penalty. If a magazine change with retention is specified by the course of fire, either method is acceptable. Re-load with retention has nothing to do with shooting from retention and the shooter’s elbow may be wherever they wish.
 

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They are now interchangable and have been since the 2001 Nats.

Im POSITIVE on that too!

As to them not being required, I dont know WHERE that came from. If the CoF calls for it, its required!

If Considerable distance = 3-4 feet........ I agree

Larry P
 

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Dom, breakdown the specific movements into pieces and figure out where you're losing time.

It could be as simple as your vest pockets "not in the right place" when your arm is moving so use pants pockets instead (loose big pockets can really help here). Or you can be slow going for the spare mag, fumbling the insertion, not getting a good grip, gf or wife distracting you :D, etc...you get the drift.

Cut a few tenths in each part and it'll guarantee seconds off in yor time.... well, maybe not seconds, probably a second... ;)
 

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Re: Fastest tac/reload w/retention?

gendarms2000 said:
Is this a tac-reload or a reload w/retention?
I don't know. The video stopped as he ejected the mag in the gun.

Either way, a reload with retention is:

1. Remove magazine from gun
2. Put it away somewhere
THEN
3. Acquire fresh magazine from pouch
4. Insert in gun and drive on.

Tac load:
1. Acquire fresh magazine from pouch
2. Bring it to gun
3. Remove mag in gun and catch it (here method varies how the fresh magazine is held with what fingers)
4. Insert fresh magazine
5. Put partially empty magazine away somewhere and drive on.
 

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Re: Fastest tac/reload w/retention?

gendarms2000 said:
Is this a tac-reload or a reload w/retention?

The video stopped as he grabbed a mag from the pouch and as the mag in the gun was mostly out of the mag well. If he can catch that monstrous magazine in the air as it was falling out of the magwell and proceed to insert the fresh magazine while he holds on to the partially depleted magazine, then it would be a tac load. If he lets the mag fall and inserted the fresh mag, then it's call an IPSC reload.
 

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He pulls the fresh mag from pouch, drops the mag in the gun, inserts fresh mag and catches old mag before it hits the ground. Looks like a tac load to me. Not real repeatable though and might be tough kneeling behind a drum.
 

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My video doesn't go to the end. If he's doing what iamashooter2 said, then it's a tac reload. He's got a helluva reflex or a great juggler.
 

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Not impressed....squatting to catch the falling mag is not a stable position to shoot from or move from.....neat circus trick though!
 

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Not a stable position?

Ever hear of Rice Paddy Prone?

Its way past "stable enough" at IDPA ranges and its faster to move from than with a knee on the ground.

Larry P
 

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And where are the circus shooter's eyes focused while waiting to grab a falling magazine?...certainly not on the front sight or the threat!! I can give you more reasons why that is tactically unsound.
 
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