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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm a fairly new reloader, I have been reloading 9mm and 45acp for about 6 months.
So far I have used 2 pounds of HP 38 with great results in both calibers.

I have run out of this and can't find any, so I am testing Titegroup and 700X.
The HP 38 metered great usual variance less than + or - .1. Titegroup pretty similar results.
I just loaded 15 rounds of 700X to test in 45acp and I am getting variance from 4.6g to 5.0g within 5 throws of the handle. I cycled the powder for about 40-50 times still got that kind of variance.
All of it is well below maximum of 5.3g on 200 LSWC, but is this a concern that I am seeing this much variance?

Thanks for your help
 

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Not out to 40--50 yards.

Past that minor charge variances get magnified.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Good, most of my shooting is 30-50 feet, draw from a holster. I'll just plan to stay around 4.8 and should be okay with the variance.

Thanks again
 

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Be careful...for I too have just started using 700-X, and it meters very poorly with my powder measure. I chose to load 4.6 grains of 700-X, and I would get some drops above the 5.3 gr max load--way above! Therefore, I just load them the old fashion way: one at a time. Not a big deal when loading 50-100 rounds. Except for this metering problem, I have found 700-X to be an excellent choice or alternative (I too like HP-38) for the .45 ACP.
 

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I could never get consistent metering with 700X, but I still have and use it. Very clean, with high accuracy potential.
I just set my measure a bit low......
 

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I'm a fairly new reloader, I have been reloading 9mm and 45acp for about 6 months.
So far I have used 2 pounds of HP 38 with great results in both calibers.

I have run out of this and can't find any, so I am testing Titegroup and 700X.
The HP 38 metered great usual variance less than + or - .1. Titegroup pretty similar results.
I just loaded 15 rounds of 700X to test in 45acp and I am getting variance from 4.6g to 5.0g within 5 throws of the handle. I cycled the powder for about 40-50 times still got that kind of variance.
All of it is well below maximum of 5.3g on 200 LSWC, but is this a concern that I am seeing this much variance?

Thanks for your help

.4 grs. of variation in 5 throws? You were right in looking at a larger sampling size. A chronograpgh would help in showing exactly how much variance in velocity you're getting which would also tell you something about pressure differences. It might not be as great an issue in .45 ACP as in the 9mm, but it's an issue I can live without, personally. The Max. Average pressure rating of the .45 ACP is 21,000 PSI and 35,000 for the 9mm. .4 grs. of variation for a 4.8 gr. could mean a pressure variation of 8.3%. So say you're loading with a safety cushion of around 3000 PSI. That would mean 18,000 PSI loads in .45 where pressure could vary by 1500 PSI. In 9mm, loading at 32,000 PSI, the pressure differential could be 2667 PSI or greater.

I understand you need to use what you can find but I'd easily use W231/HP38 over 700-X or Titegroup for both cartridges. I stopped using flake powders like 700-X and the Alliant varieties over 15 years ago. Sphericals (ball-type) are denser in almost every case and meter with far better uniformity. Good sphericals also tend to be more pressure stable, but unforunately, TiteGroup (a spherical) is known to pressure spike when loaded to near or at Max. charges in high pressure cartridges like the 9 X 19mm. It also happens to be one of the hottest burning pistol powders in existence. A better alternative if it could have been found would be Ramshot ZIP that is similar to W231/HP38 which are the same powder under 2 labels in case you didn't know. AA#2 or even #5 would work as well.

For 9mm, I don't make many of what some refer to as "bunnyfart" loads. Unique and Universal are both flake powders, so I don't use them, nor anything else faster burning for cartridges like the 9 X 19mm or the .40 S&W. You need to become familiar with the various burn rates of different powders. We could get into a long debate about who has the most accurate burn rate chart, so I'll just say that I mostly use Hodgdon's which you can download from their website. If you want light loads in 9mm and I do make them for others occasionally, there's nothing wrong with W231/HP38, AA#2 or ZIP. I'd have no interest in using 700-X or TiteGroup.

Being a new reloader, what I would recommend to you is using a powder that gives at least 50% case fill whenever possible. If you accidentally double-charged a case, which should never happen with careful examination of the powder charge in the case; yet still occurs, the powder would overflow the cartridge case. There are a number of great sphericals you could use for 9mm that will give 50% or greater case volume. It's a different situation for the .45 ACP where very few powders that are commonly used will give even 50% case fill.

For loading multiple calibers with a single powder, general use powders can be beneficial. While they're a tad faster burning, HP38/W231 are commonly used while Unique tends to get recommended more than anything else which stems from many years of it being recommended for that application. Now there is something better and it's also a fine grained and dense spherical that's round enough to look like miniature ball-bearings. It meters like hourglass sand and nothing really meters better than Ramshot True Blue. It works well in both low and high pressure cartridges including mid-magnum revolver loads and it is not as powder position sensitive as many powders in the same general burn rate category. I mention it specifically because you're loading both 9mm and .45 ACP with the same powder/s. It will give at least 50% case fill in the 9mm and can give match-grade accuracy. It works very well in the .45 ACP also.

Most of us use multiple powders for different applications. I like Silhouette for my 9mm defense handloads because it has very low flash as does True Blue. 3N37 is another powder I've used for years. Typically I use and recommend spherical powders just slower than Unique (N330) on Hodgdon's burn rate chart down to powders as slow as AA#7. When I do make light 9mm loads, it's with powders like W231 and ZIP or very low charges of True Blue. For .45 ACP, I use WST, W231, ZIP, True Blue and some Silhouette exclusively for high velocity JHP loads. Most commonly, I use True Blue for cast and poly-coated lead bullet loads as well as for my JHP defense loads these day. If I could buy only one pistol powder, it would easily be True Blue.

Always consult with experienced handloaders about powder selection. The guy at the local gun shop may be the last person you want to consult and you don't know his motivations for recommending a particular powder. It's usually the best seller he has in stock. Might work for him, but for you? Not so much! ;)
 

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On target? It doesn't matter--out to 50 yards or so.
However, that variation, even for that powder, indicates that you are not operating the measure CONSISTENTLY.
1) Give the measure a few shakes to settle the powder when you fill the hopper
2) When you move the handle up or down, always "bang, bang" the handle against the stop
3) Throw and discard at least 10 charges before you ever start to weigh
4) some people hook up small vibrators or aquarium pumps to the measure to settle the powder in the cavity
 

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57K, another very informative post. I favor WST, HP-38, and Bullseye over most powders when loading for .45 ACP in target applications. But, as I mentioned a few days ago, I look forward to the day when I can find some True Blue.
 

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What kind of measure do you use? 700x isn't the best at metering but I still get +/- .1 out of it.

Well, except in really small charges, like <3.0.

It is a bit of a pain, but it is a really good performer in .45 and 9mm.
 

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I just loaded 15 rounds of 700X to test in 45acp and I am getting variance from 4.6g to 5.0g within 5 throws of the handle. I cycled the powder for about 40-50 times still got that kind of variance.
noylj, not operating the measure consistently? The OP found a .4 gr. variation with 5 throws, so he then did exactly what he should have. Since he was only throwing charges for the next sample of 40 - 50 powder charges and doing no other operation, you really believe it's that hard to throw charges consistently with a good powder measure?


SOA1911, thanks, were we talking about my latest defense load endeavor with the 200 gr. XTP? Except for using cases with mixed headstamps, my loads were identical to one from an older Ramshot loadguide. With 8.2 grs. of True Blue using an OACL of 1.220", they got 952 FPS from a 5" barrel with an SD of 6! The 10 rounds I chrono'd from my 4.5" SR45 averaged 926 FPS just about as they should have and with the same SD of 6! This is not at all rare for True Blue, it does the same thing with cast bullet loads, 9mm, .40 S&W, mid-magnum revolver loads whatever. About the only thing that really surprises me anymore about True Blue, is the number of experienced reloaders that aren't afraid to look at newer powders but haven't discovered just how good True Blue is. ;)
 

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My Lyman 55 meters 700X just fine I have no problems at all ,make sure you keep hopper full and use the same rhythm with your powder dispensing. I have used 700X in 45 ACP , 38 sp.,9mm,and 357 mag for years with good results. I do like Win 231 for most of my pistol reloading needs but in these times of use what powder you can find 700X is what I use.
 

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700x is horrible for metering. By far the worst I have used in pistols. I have a pound I am just using for odds and ends and I hope it is gone soon. Garbage in my opinion.
 

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Been going through this same issue with 700X and a Dillon 550. I followed the advice of few here who also suggested that "settling" the powder did in fact help me a little. I also use a rubber band to help (I think it does) to add extra pressure on the return force of the powder bar. Some or most use a spring, but for now I rigged up a rubber band. I also keep the powder hopper 3/4 full or more. From the start mine was only off by .1 -.2 but your right for now we need to use what we can get. I just start out real low and worked up a little to make the pistol function well enough to get by with some practice. I'm not loading mine up for matches.

I'm going with 3.4/ Xtreme 124 RN plated/9MM/1.32 OAL


Good luck
 
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