[Genghis]

I'd never use a load spec off the internet without a comparision to a couple standard load manuals.

Manufactures have load data online. I trust this data.

There is no "magic" load out there that is going to solve all your problems. Standard load data is a guideline. Personal recipes are points of comparison to standard, published manufacture data.



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What part of "shall not be infringed" needs 'splainin' ???
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PowderBurns Black Powder / Muzzle Loader Forum

 

[scarman]

I could not agree more and glad someone took the time to put it to print. This should almost be a disclaimer for the reloading section. I myself am fairly new at reloading (7 months). I don't know anyone who I can directly learn from, so I read a lot of books, asked a lot of questions at my local gun shop, and researched on the net before I made my first round. That coupled with common sense got me started on the right foot.

What I learned starting out was you need to FULLY understand the process. Not only the How Tos but the Whys. You need to start slow and pay attention. Don't get distracted. Did I mention you need to pay attention. If you use info off the net without backing it up with some book knowledge and or experience, you could be asking for trouble.

 

[Cascade]

Couldn't agree more. The best advice I ever got was to buy some good reloading manuals before I even bought my reloading equipment. I have run across some recipes on the net that I wouldn't think of using.

 

[Gargoyle]

I WILL PROBABLY BE EXCOMMUNICATED FOR SAYING THIS, BUT I'LL BE HONEST:
In the 5 years that I have been reloading I have yet to buy a reloading manual and all of my info has come from powder containers/Manufacturer's websites and advice from respectable users of the forums. (If your smart, you will find out who is shooting straight, literally) I have found what most manufacturers claim are maximum loads are not really maximum loads and are only listed "maximum" due to legal concern. Sometimes I have to exceed the maximum loads to obtain the same velocities published by the companies. So far my most accurate round that produces the tightest groups for my .22-250 exceeds max loads. I have been looking for excessive wear related to "hot" loads but have yet to find any. I fine tune my loads to what works and not by listed info alone. I do start low, but work up to when something goes the way I want it to. Somtimes that measn going beyond the "Max" listed load. On the other hand I found what makes my .223 acurrate is below maximum.
Moral of the story: Pay attention to detail when reloading, meaning fine tailoring your rounds. Start out low and work up until a round is producing the velocities you want, and at the same time, accurate at those velocities without wear on the brass or gun. If this means breaking the taboo listed data, so be it. Hopefully you know more about what is going on twith your paticular gun then a company.

 

[shane45-1911]

Originally posted by KLN:
The moderator of this forum, Walking Point, seems to know what he is talking about and is cautious about his advice. That is fortunate, and somewhat unusual.

This is a very good post KLN, and I couldn't agree with you more. Also, I agree with your statement above regarding WP. He's the man.

Also note that the days of pushing the envelope in reloading are over. There is rarely (and quite possibly NEVER) a reason to use max. published loads anymore. Accuracy is usually diminished, and if you are reloading for self defense/CCW, do you really think that 750 FPS will kill someone less than 850 FPS? Powder manufacturers have advanced the stability and structure of powder greatly in the past 10 years. Today, you can usually get the same velocity (and lower pressure to boot) with significantly LOWER powder charges than you could a few years ago.

Good advice from all above, and remember to get multiple sources for your reloading info, and to start low and gradually work up to a moderate load. NO NEED TO GO FOR MAXIMUM LOADS ANYMORE.

 

[Walking Point]

I sure do appreciate the kind comments posted here.

Gargoyle worries me. I went down that road many years ago and learned the hard way that it was a serious wrong turn. Be very careful as the velocity one person/company is getting may not be duplicated safely in all guns. Long barrel versus short barrel or test rig versus actual firearm is a couple of examples.

Not wanting to preach, but the "max charge isn't really max" comment couldn't be resisted. I broke a bolt head retaining pin on a Savage 110 with a load that was 2 full grains short of max. I should have known that 2800 FPS with a 168 BTHP in a .308 was a little too fast. I haven't gotten another Speer manual to see if that particular load has been updated.

Although I like standard reloading manuals, I like to use the free manuals from powder/bullet manufacturers as 2nd or 3rd (or 5th or 6th) data sources when starting from scratch.

 

[Gargoyle]

Talking about shooting straight and good forum members, I'm glad Waling Point and Shane45 posted.

HORNADY"S MAX LISTINGS ARE 3-4 GRAINS LOWER THAN HODGDON'S LISTED DATA. (The two brands I use)
I exceeded Hornady's listed data, but didn't exceed Hodgdons. I tried to get the max load listed by Hodgdon with my .22-250 but had to stop at 2 grains lower when my bullets started destabilizing. I then went another grain lower and it's shooting very good.

I found that I exceeded some max listed data and found the most accurate round for my 22-250 was over the max data listed from one Manufactuer. Regardless of what the two manufacturers list, I have the evidence in my own hands by inspecting for danger signs and accuracy tests. INSPECT, DON'T EXPECT!

I guess that is the advice I was trying to tell our members is to pay attention to the gun and the evidence from firing! As far as Walking Point says, and as far as Max loads, there are so many variables to consider when trying to reach velocites and listed performance. The most important factor is to stay smart and safe.


[This message has been edited by Gargoyle (edited 08-19-2001).]

 

[Walking Point]

I agree that you have to inspect carefully for danger signs.

As many wildcatters have found out, a load that's safe in their rifle can be dangerous in another.

You seem to have a handle on things so consider any of my current/past comments as being intended for those just getting started.

Many years ago I developed all my .38/.357 loads for my L frame S&W. Two rounds of 160 grain SWC developed for the S&W was enough to blow the cylinder on a new Taurus 85. I hated that since the little pistol hit exactly to point of aim and it's replacement never came close.

Up to this point I've forgotten to mention that KLN started an extremely good thread with excellent advice.

[This message has been edited by Walking Point (edited 08-19-2001).]

 

[Colt shooter]

I also agree completely with the original post. As a matter of fact, I question all adive received on these forums on any subject matter. Not everybody that has something to say is an expert or is even correct with what they are saying.

One way I screen some of the information that I am willing to take into consideration is by checking their grammar and spelling. I am not the best and I am sure some could find errors in my grammar and spelling but it is a indication of education and intelligence.

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[Gargoyle]

Originally posted by Colt shooter:
I also agree completely with the original post. As a matter of fact, I question all adive received on these forums on any subject matter. Not everybody that has something to say is an expert or is even correct with what they are saying.

One way I screen some of the information that I am willing to take into consideration is by checking their grammar and spelling. I am not the best and I am sure some could find errors in my grammar and spelling but it is a indication of education and intelligence.

What will you do if they install a "spell check" in this software? I would have to say fluent thought canveyance and vocabulary is a better indication of intelligence. Then there is the whole "Multiple intelligences" theory by the psychologist Gardner. (but lets not get too deep)
I just "speek truthfooly and carri a good gunn!"

 

[Colt shooter]

I still am going to, "stick to my guns" so to speak on my original post. However, I must admit that you are also correct Gargoyle. Fluent thought and vocabulary are also good indicators.

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100% NRA - Join today at www.mynra.com

 

[gyp_c]

All kidding aside. Reloading is serious business. It doesn't take a lot to have an accident and it doesn't take much to have a BAD ACCIDENT...

Do Not Take Anything For Granted.
Check, recheck, and recheck again.

KEEP A LOG!!!

I mean document everything. The very worst that can happen if you are 100% and never do ANYTHING WRONG...IS YOU CAN STILL GET HURT.
The fact is, it's dangerous. The reason is because there are factors that come to you from beyond your control. That's why it is absolutely necessary to do everything correctly everytime. There can still be problems with primers, powder, cases etc...
You really never know. With that as a given, why on earth would you take anything for granted? Be consistent. Record everything. Always check and re-check your work. If there is the slightest CHANCE that something is wrong, just don't use it! You can always render loads inert or dispose of them safely. There is nothing that says you have to shoot every round you reload...

I really think there is a ton of great information here. If you are not ABSOLUTELY SURE about ANYTHING, don't use it. Period.

Use your own best judgement and common sense.

You can have a lot of fun reloading and it can be done safely. You are the one in charge of Quality Control...



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>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<

I Like The Shade Too!

 

[TangoRomeo]

Nosiree! Doant never taik advice from a poar speler, or from sombody that aint got no good gramer. Doant wory thoe. I'll hep yal gies out wif yore spelin an gramer eny ol time. An I speshulize in puckshuashun two.

[Edited by TangoRomeo two korekt spelin misteaks]

Sorry guys. No offense intended. Sometimes the Devil just makes me do strange things!-TR

[This message has been edited by TangoRomeo (edited 08-22-2001).]

 

[Gargoyle]

Originally posted by TangoRomeo:
Nosiree! Doant never taik advice from a poar speler, or from sombody that aint got no good gramer. Doant wory thoe. I'll hep yal gies out wif yore spelin an gramer eny ol time. An I speshulize in puckshuashun two.

[Edited by TangoRomeo two korekt spelin misteaks]

Sorry guys. No offense intended. Sometimes the Devil just makes me do strange things!-TR

[This message has been edited by TangoRomeo (edited 08-22-2001).]

I have to admit, that error message really tops it off!

 

[Gargoyle]

Originally posted by gyp_c:
All kidding aside. Reloading is serious business. It doesn't take a lot to have an accident and it doesn't take much to have a BAD ACCIDENT...

Do Not Take Anything For Granted.
Check, recheck, and recheck again.

KEEP A LOG!!!

I mean document everything. The very worst that can happen if you are 100% and never do ANYTHING WRONG...IS YOU CAN STILL GET HURT.
The fact is, it's dangerous. The reason is because there are factors that come to you from beyond your control. That's why it is absolutely necessary to do everything correctly everytime. There can still be problems with primers, powder, cases etc...
You really never know. With that as a given, why on earth would you take anything for granted? Be consistent. Record everything. Always check and re-check your work. If there is the slightest CHANCE that something is wrong, just don't use it! You can always render loads inert or dispose of them safely. There is nothing that says you have to shoot every round you reload...

I really think there is a ton of great information here. If you are not ABSOLUTELY SURE about ANYTHING, don't use it. Period.

Use your own best judgement and common sense.

You can have a lot of fun reloading and it can be done safely. You are the one in charge of Quality Control...

I think your a fellow "INSPECT, DON'T EXPECT" kind of guy! Are you also a "Glass Half Full" type?

[This message has been edited by Gargoyle because he is now paranoid about his spelling and grammer. (edited 08-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Gargoyle (edited 08-22-2001).]