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Just read an interesting article about weapons jamming with military issued CLP. It seems that the CLP is attracting sand and grit and ultimately causing jams. Army cancelled orders for Militec, which seems to perform much better than CLP.

Click HERE for the story.
 

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There have been several threads about this in the recent past. Please search under "Iraq" and "clp".
 

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Over lube always attract sands and grits. It really does not matter what you use.
Saw too many of my comrades doing that.:(
 

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In a sandy environment like Iraq you should avoid lube altogether, except maybe a drop or two in a couple places.
 

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Yeah, this is the same thing I saw several weeks ago. If you'll notice, it sounds like a sales promo from Miltec...in fact nearly every paragraph near the last half of the article keeps giving Miltic another glowing endorsement.

Also the mother of one of the soldiers wrote this (quote)

Arlene Walters: "That shouldn't happen to everybody. It seems that it's a fault of something that they are using not the fault of the soldier that he didn't clean the gun .'

Well, it obviously is the gun's fault that it didn't clean itself.

Too bad the guy had to die...I feel for all the families.

I lost 2 in SE Asia.
 

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Your rifle and pistol should be lubed and wiped off dry with only a drop where the bolt carrier contacts metal.

It's not the lube itself, but the level of training our boys are getting in field maintenence. Forget everything you were taught in Basic, listen to your NCOs.
 

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CLP was also issued during the first Gulf War.... it ain't the product, but the practice.
 

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This is where versatile lubricants like Tetra might be very effective. The grease and oil-based lube can both be applied thinly, wiped dry - then buffed. The products maintains a level of lubricity while not attracting abrasive particles etc.

But desert warfare is nothing new; those who know not only run their guns with as little wet lube as possible - they keep them covered up when not actually in use. Even a good makeshift cover can be made to keep dust and sand out of where it counts, and still allow the weapon to be kept "at the ready" for instantaneous use.
 

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I don't think that we should be so quick to discount the possibility that CLP might hold dirt more readily than Miltech. If I'm not mistaken the reason for the switch to CLP was that it was a multi purpose product. Doesn't CLP stand for, "Clean, Lube, Protect"? By switching to CLP the military not only eliminated a soldier's having to carry two or three products, they also would have saved a good deal of money by only having to purchase one thing.

I'd think that to be a good cleaner a product would have to be able to not only loosen dirt and grime, but to also hold it so that the dirt will be removed from the firearm along with the cleaner. While an all purpose product like this may be okay for general use among shooters, it might not be the appropriate thing to use in combat, especially in extremely dusty environments. Stay safe, Gary
 

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I hate the idea of people using an inferior product because they developed it.

Winning is what matters in war. Thats it Anyone involved in knowingly forcing the military to use an inferior product to justify the cost of developing that product (if that really happened) should be fired.

All that said I use CLP for my AR and I havent had any problems with flying sand. Then again I live in Western Washington.

:D
 

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I'd like to see a lubricant that doesn't attract sand, dust, grit, etc. It sounds like operator error to me.

What about all the other small arms being used there. The M249, M240, M9, M203, etc. that are being used by the real grunts? A bunch of S4/G4 Supply pogues get caught with their pants down and all the sudden it's a System failure and not a cluster-f*ck.
 

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Came Late to the party

The "article" in question has been cycled on most of the other forums for several weeks if not longer. The general concensus is that it's BS. Militec liquid lube is the slickest lube on the market and I use it on every gun I own, mixed with various greases to act as a holding agent. Militec is a superior lube, but I am 100% sure it would hold fine sand dust exactly like any other liquid lube would. The net upshot of this all is that Militec got a black eye because a lot of people think they cooked the whole thing up or were behind it somehow. I don't believe that, but I think they did post the "article" on their website for a while.

Bottom line, they make a great product and they also support the armed forces by giving vets a huge discount (like 50%) on the price of the stuff, which I really appreciated.
 

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Possible Explanation

Militec liquid lube (they call it "metal conditioner") can be used where individual parts are lubed and then baked at high temp and it supposedly fuses the metal with a lubricating layer, so the parts can be run "dry" and still have lubrication. If the parts are dry, obviously they will not hold sand dust as they would if they were covered with liquid oil.

I am not sure I believe all the stuff about that "fusion". I use the stuff like regular oil and it works great.

FWIW: the article content:

"Art Couchman sent his son, a soldier in Iraq, a commercial lubricant called Militec. A firearms trainer for police in New York, Couchman became quite concerned when his son told him that the military-issued lubricant attracted dirt and sand to his gun. That's when Couchman sent him bottles of Militec.

In a recent letter, his son thanks his dad for the shipment of Militec, calling the lube, "pretty amazing stuff."

is anecdotal at best, and smells an awful lot like something made up out of thin air.
 

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Yep,
getting kinda old too. I thought a soldier would get busted for using non issue CLP for small arms anyway.

Dunno, lots of horn blowing and reference to Military to sell wonder lubes, is this not a no no for a soldier to do?
I believe it is inspect and maintain as ordered condusive to environs that is the key.
 

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I think that any lube that is used over there,rather clp or militec or any other lube is going to attract the sand.If the soldiers are maintaning there weapons,which I am sure that they are,with all the sand blowing around its going to get inside and cause jamming problems. The problems that the soldiers are having now are the same problems that the soldiers had in veitnam.
The m16 is a good gun but, If I was the one who was over there I would want another type of gun,not sure which one but it wouldnt be the M16.They need something that is built alittle losser. That my .02c worth
 

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The desert is an unforgiving place. I can tell you from my own experiences that a weapon in the desert needs to be cleaned 2-3 times a day if the sand is blowing (which it always is). I used Graphite powder most of the time, but sand will get everywhere no matter what lube you use. I've cleaned my weapon and had it so full of sand in an hour the bolt would freeze up and lock in place when I pulled the charging handle.





Train hard, Train often, and be safe.
 
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