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I have heard many people use terms such as 1911 clones or say thing such as "Buy a Colt or buy a copy". This I really don't understand. I believe that I am quite a traditionalist when it comes to buying anything and always buy classic products by the original manufacturers. However when it comes to 1911's and AR15's I really don't see the connection. Correct me if I am wrong, but Colt did not invent either of these weapons. I believe that credit is due to Mr. Browning and Mr. Stoner(sp?) right? Yes I understand that they made them for the longest time and what not but all they did was buy the rights. Now, if your talking about SAA's that may be a different story.

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Denbo, in short, you are correct!
 

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Colt, at one time, made the BEST 1911's. At that time everything else was "just a copy".

Colt didn't take care of business and lost their place at the top of the heap. I own a Colt (I've had it 26 years) and a Rock River Basic Limited Match. There is no comparison, the RRA is a much better gun.
 

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Originally posted by LW McVay:
Denbo, in short, you are correct!
Dear Denbo, LW is right on target. Look at it this way, there are a lot of Zippo lighter lookalikes but there's only one real Zippo. Is a Parker Reproductions shotgun a real Parker? I don't think so even though parts are interchangeable. Colt owned the rights to the 1911 and that means theirs are the real thing and others are as you said...clones. Stay safe, Gary

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Denbo,

Is Colt the only "real" 1911? Well, maybe.

Since the real credit must go to John Browning, I guess this really has to do with "who brought them to the market." With the exception of the pistols produced through the now-defunct government arsenal and contract system, Colt was the sole supplier of the 1911 in this country for decades.

I also have a pair of Winchester 1897 shotguns. Browning designed them, but everybody knows that the only real 1897 is a Winchester. Likewise, nobody ever bought an AR-15 directly from Gene Stoner; you had to go to his licensee if you wanted the "genuine article." Same difference.

There is certainly nothing wrong with being a clone. Some of my favorite 1911s (Wilsons) are just "knock offs" by the classic definition, but which would you rather have?

Is there something special about owning a genuine Colt? In my view, yes. What that actually means on the firing line will forever be open to debate.


Chuck
 
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Some very interesting points but, you've now trotted into smoking territory. The Zippos are lifetime guaranteed and know matter who owns it they will fix it for free. I no longer carry a zippo as its the 1911 of lighters. But I have a couple drawer queens.
 

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Please send any 1911 or 1911A1 copies, such as Rem-Rand, Springfield, US&S, etc. to the following address.............
 

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There are several 1911 clones I would buy over Colts. I have two Series 70 Colts and will never part with them. Newer verisions are an entirely different story.

Colt AR15s are clones. ArmaLites are the real thing. "AR stands for ArmaLite."

Eddie
 

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Originally posted by Gary W Trott:
Dear Denbo, LW is right on target... Colt owned the rights to the 1911 and that means theirs are the real thing and others are as you said...clones. Stay safe, Gary
Well that wasn't quite what I had in mind when I posted my first reply. But its ok...

For me for years, Colt was the Real Thing. Then they took a turn for the worse...headed toward the dumper. I walked away from them and that darn Series 80 safety...At least with the clones, you didn't have to deal with that aggravation.

I'm hearing great things about them and their quality control now. I hope its all true. I personally haven't handled a new one. Now if they would just get rid of that Series 80, I'd be standing in line to get a new one.
 

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"Buy a Colt or buy a copy" and "If it doeesn't say Colt on the side, then it is just a copy" are the mantras of the Colt Cult as is "Colt is not dead! Why do people keep saying that?"
 

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Colt certainly has a following and some will always say any Colt is a real 1911 due to Colt's prominent position in the history of 1911's. But American Rifleman clarifies things by explaining that if a pistol isn't GI then it's a clone regardless of the maker.

Basically any 1911 which is not GI is a clone, including Colt, Springfield, Kimber, and all the rest. They're ALL clones.
 

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Why do people keep saying that?

Well, I keep saying that because that's what they tell me every time I call Hartford to ask them what the heck is going on up there!
I have to admit though, that they are going to have to do some serious PR work if they are serious about getting their market share back.

Chuck
 

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Colt hasn't made a 1911 in decades (since 1926 I believe when the 1911A1 was standardized). And the only real 1911A1 is made by Springfield, who owns the copyright. So, Colt itself only makes copies of the 1911A1.
 

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Originally posted by buzz_knox:
Colt hasn't made a 1911 in decades (since 1926 I believe when the 1911A1 was standardized). And the only real 1911A1 is made by Springfield, who owns the copyright. So, Colt itself only makes copies of the 1911A1.
Dear buzz_knox, That's a very good point. I'm ashamed to say I'm really not that familiar with some of these gun's histories, but isn't Colt's 1991 an updated version of the original 1911? Stay safe, Gary

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Colt had very much to do with the development of the 1911. The gun was actually a result of close cooperation by Colt, Browning and Army Ordnance. There are early prototypes with similar features, some by Colt and some by Browning, all designed to address criticism from the Army.
Armalite was not a manufacturer; they designed guns, and tried to make money by selling the designs to companies or governments who were interested in producing them. Colt bought the design for the the AR-15 from Armalite. The current Armalite company is a clonemaker, just as is the current "Springfield Armory".
You can argue that some of the clones are "better" than the original Colts (both 1911 and AR), but I suspect a lot of the "improvements" in the clones takes them out of spec. While Kimbers, Baers, RR's, Wilsons, etc. are "tighter" than most Colts, I would argue that the Colts have been made to the government specs, not those developed by someone else in an attempt to improve the design. Kuhnhausen has a chapter devoted to the idea of second set of 1911 dimensions, that would yield a pistol better-suited to the modern needs of the civilian and law enforcement, and while I suspect modern custom and semi-custom guns are built to something similar to this proposed new standard, it is no reason to skewer Colt for sticking to the dimensions that that they, Browning and the Army decided on years ago.
 

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Last night I had my 1915 vintage Colt Commercial Government model out of the safe for the once over. I kept thinking, too bad they don't make 'em like this anymore. If that baby could talk, what story would she tell? As I finished wiping her down and put her back in the padded case, I thought I hope I look this good when I'm 86 years old!

Yeah, the "vintage Colts" are the only real 1911's!!! Regards, NAA.

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Colt 1911: Best damn "Government" in the World!
 

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I like the Colts mainly because they appear to be made very closely to the original 1911A1 specs. I also like the original look with the straight (and no front) side serrations, and the rounded front strap. I'm speaking mainly about the basic Gov't model of course...As for the firing pin safety, I recently handled one and could not feel any difference in trigger pull from my RemRand or SA. Can anyone else tell a difference?
 
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