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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Schwartz safety...... external proprietary extractors.......

God I wish I had bought my buddy's basic Kimber (back when they made two models) years ago. I could have probably gotten it for $400, since he only paid $500 for it himself brand new.
 

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bought a new Kimber Pro works perfect zero problems. I think it was stated here before that many if not most problems are in the shorter psitols.. seems the barrel length becomes important.
Anyway, mine is fine shoots great
 

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They are simply doing what most every other firearms manufacturer has done - improve the product into mediocrity. For example:

Colt Single Action Army - 1st Generation is better than 2nd Generation, both of which are better than the 3rd Generation.

Ruger Blackhawks - any 3 screw is better than the newer "safer" 2 screw versions.

S&W - pinned and recessed DA revolvers are better than non P&R, which are better than MIM models which are better than the new "improved" safety latch versions.

Colt AR-15s - pre ban guns are better than the post ban which are better than the current production.

Kimber first series are better than the Series II which are better than...I could go on but it gets depressing!
 

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It goes without saying, that I hold my Series I Custom Stainless with the highest regards...it is in fact, the best pistol I have ever owned or fired. But I have been almost equally impresed, with my Series II Compact Stainless...it easily rivals its larger sibling in accuracy and reliability...I carry it almost daily. As for the Series II parts...I have simply removed them altogether, and I replaced the firing pin with a lighter one, then used a stronger firing pin spring! It is a very easy task.
 

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There was a definate difference in workmanship when they concentrated on two or three models, and did them right!
 

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It's funny you should mention that, because when I asked Randy (Kimber Rep) that very question, he categorically stated that the quality is as good now if not better than in the early days. Of course, what would you expect him to say? :D
 

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I swear to you, if Kimber would just reintroduce the Custom I (the most basic one they made), sales would go through the roof! I would buy 4 of them myself...

I would rather have one Custom I (early quality) than any big name $2000 gun.

C'mon, Kimber! Just one series I model. How much in labor would that set you back? dont mill the holes for the series II stuff, don't mill back the ejection port for the external safety. That's all there is to it. Pretty please?

Liability? How many times were you sued BEFORE the series II was introduced? The sales from jurisdictions that require them would be outweighed by those that don't!

AARRGH!!!!:barf:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It seems to me that Kimber could make a good amount of money doing what Springfield & Colt have done, get back to basics. Imagin a Kimber series 70 1911 reproduction. They're so into all these stupid-ass special models (like that idiotic one with no sights), so don't tell me they can't break out of the rut they're digging themselves into.
It's sad really to watch a company flush itself down the toilet for no reason. It's one thing to sit on your laurels & not improve, it's quite another to ruin a good thing because you don't know when to quit meddling.
 

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Kimber put themselves on the map by putting out the 1911 we all wanted. But now they're making what works best for them, regardless of whether it's what the customer wants or not.
 

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I know that traditionalist hate it, but I love my external extractor on my TLE. I never owned an internal extractor 1911 and I am glad that I got the external that I don't have to tune. I do not like the series two parts, but I haven't had any problems with them.
 

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dsk said:
Kimber put themselves on the map by putting out the 1911 we all wanted. But now they're making what works best for them, regardless of whether it's what the customer wants or not.
Until they see a drop in sales, they will follow their current business plan. With so many models now, they seem to be selling a lot of guns.
 

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I think you are all missing something here from what I was told/understand to be true. Some states, such as CA, are mandating that new pistols that are sold in their states a certian number and type of safety features, or some combination there of to be sold in the state as brand new pistols. Kimber can't make money on used sales. There are also certian requirements of Law Enforcement agencies and the millitary that can make or break the volume sales which could really help boost the bottom line.

With that said, I have not had any issues with the SII stuff yet, but if I do, it won't take long to remove it. My Tact. II also has the external extractor, and other than my own stupidity of putting oil on to the extractor and then not cleaning it for about 750rds yet still extracted another 100rds after having a hicup with only 1 rd, I have not had a single problem with the design.

Wes
 

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Wangstang said:
I think you are all missing something here from what I was told/understand to be true. Some states, such as CA, are mandating that new pistols that are sold in their states a certian number and type of safety features, or some combination there of to be sold in the state as brand new pistols. Kimber can't make money on used sales. There are also certian requirements of Law Enforcement agencies and the millitary that can make or break the volume sales which could really help boost the bottom line.

Wes
We aren't missing that point Wangstang. I live in Kali and understand well the implications of the crazy laws out here. But what they are saying is that Kimber should make some guns without the Series 2 safety for sales in the other states and to the public. Skip a little machining and leave out the three parts. They could make a run of these at the beginning or end of a production run. I'm stuck with the Series 2 either way and I don't have a problem with that. Mine also work fine.

What will be interesting to me is if Kimber adds mag disconnects to accomodate the latest design by legislation requirement that takes effect in 2007. The current design with the "loaded chamber indicator" is good through 2006.
 

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Kruzr said:

What will be interesting to me is if Kimber adds mag disconnects to accomodate the latest design by legislation requirement that takes effect in 2007. The current design with the "loaded chamber indicator" is good through 2006.
Care to elaborate on what this is, I am still learning about all the features of handguns so... I ask a lot of questions.

Wes
 

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liability??

This is safer but we make this one that is not as safe for states that do not require it. Any lawyers out there.

They make 1000's instead of a few hundred pistols a year. There has to be a drop off in quality or testing each pistol.

Ed Brown? starting at 1900.00 I'll stick with Kimber.

plunker
 

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Wangstang said:
Care to elaborate on what this is, I am still learning about all the features of handguns so... I ask a lot of questions.

Wes
A mag disconnect is a device which will prevent the pistol from firing if there isn't a magazine in the magwell. This is to prevent those people who don't know gun safety from mistakingly thinking the gun is unloaded if the mag isn't there. The thoughtful legislators of this state passed a law a few months ago and Gray Doofus signed it into law. As of 2006, all semi-auto handguns approved for sale in the state will have to have a loaded chamber indicator. The new Kimbers have this....a little cut out in the hood just like a Springfield has had. As of 2007, they need to have the mag disconnect to be allowed to be tested.

Guns already registered in the state are exempt so in state private party transfers of existing guns aren't affected. In addition, interestingly enough, law enforcement agencies are exempt. What this means is Kali law states that any gun without these devices are considered to be legally "unsafe". Thats the wording in the law. So, all law enforcement agencies in the state will be using official "unsafe" guns. Does that sound like a lawsuit waiting to happen at a first shooting by the police?
 

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norman74, what is wrong with the external extractors? The internal version had been one of the weaknesses of the 1911 platform. Colt used externals on other models as did/do other makers and they work quite well. It isn't the stereotypical part for the 1911, but it is hardly ruining a good thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Double Naught Spy said:
norman74, what is wrong with the external extractors? The internal version had been one of the weaknesses of the 1911 platform. Colt used externals on other models as did/do other makers and they work quite well. It isn't the stereotypical part for the 1911, but it is hardly ruining a good thing.
File it under "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" in my opinion.
One of the best aspects of the 1911 style firearm today is the interchangeability of parts. I think that ANY 1911 that uses proprietary parts is stupid, because it takes away our ability to tinker.
Like Colt & their ridiculous large pin AR15.
 

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The internal extractor

I am sorry but I am not a die hard 1911 fan. I have a Kimber Eclipse Tactical and a pro model but I am not a die hard 1911 fan. Furthermore, I am not old (26) enough to talk about objectively about the series I. My favorite gun is my Beretta 96 so there ya go. My poor Kimber experience was with a Ultra ten I purchased from Kimber that was eventually replaced by my pro model. Every Ultra Ten now has been made with external extractor, which has according to reports increased reliability and cut down on warranty calls. The internal extractor has caused numerous reported feeding problems in the Kimber and it was really a design flaw on their version of the 1911. So don’t talk about the series 1 and how good it was because times have changed and Kimber is forced to find ways to cut down on the problems with the Series II. And right now the solution is external extractors. I even think old Browning would agree with this change.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: The internal extractor

thislife said:
I am sorry but I am not a die hard 1911 fan. I have a Kimber Eclipse Tactical and a pro model but I am not a die hard 1911 fan.
Are yours series I or II?
Furthermore, I am not old (26) enough to talk about objectively about the series I.
Why not? I'm 28, and I remember when Kimber produced 2 models.
My favorite gun is my Beretta 96 so there ya go. My poor Kimber experience was with a Ultra ten I purchased from Kimber that was eventually replaced by my pro model.
I don't understand, you had problems with the traditional extractor?
Every Ultra Ten now has been made with external extractor, which has according to reports increased reliability and cut down on warranty calls.
Is that one of their polymer guns?
The internal extractor has caused numerous reported feeding problems in the Kimber and it was really a design flaw on their version of the 1911.
Why? what made their different than anyone else's? I have never heard of non-polymer problems with extractors in Series I Kimbers, and I sold the things for two years.
So don’t talk about the series 1 and how good it was because times have changed and Kimber is forced to find ways to cut down on the problems with the Series II. And right now the solution is external extractors.
You say you aren't old enough to remember Series I guns, and yet you say the series II is an improvement? And you left off the truly more offensive part of the Series II, the "we know what's best for you" safety. Even if it never causes a failure in a pristine gun, it is simply one more (or three or four?) mechanical part to fail, and one more place that dirt & such can get wedged & cause you catastrophic problems. On a target gun I suppose that it might not be such a big deal, but I carry all of my pistols, that's the only reason I own them. I practice with them because it's fun & good training, but I buy them to defend myself. YMMV

I even think old Browning would agree with this change.
Why?
 
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