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I doubt that!
Old memory, I know Hatcher ,Whelen and Browning worked on the acceptance of most of Browning's US submissions . If it was said at all I am sure it was as competition for Luger in Europe, after all Colt did reject it as to complicated and expensive to make here . The pre war Hi-powers are beautiful piece's of work .
 

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"..too complicated and expensive to make.." Oh, that's hilarious. It does sound like something the management at Colt would say though.
 

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Got curios researched the P35 last night , the sub-forum here the "official" history on the internet (it never lies ) . My opinion if Browning had been allowed by Colt to use the 1911 trigger as he wanted to it would be an entirely different gun, If Browning hadn't died again a different gun . The engineer that took over is apparently responsible for the trigger . IN 1935 FN tried to get colt to build an American version colt was heavily invested in the 1911 and with war rumors flying did not want to retool for a different weapon. It all really came down to the bottom line , and Colt and Browning being disgruntled with each other. I have only handled 2 a French army and Nazi marked one ,never fired one so every one here is way ahead of me .
 

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Got curios researched the P35 last night , the sub-forum here the "official" history on the internet (it never lies ) . My opinion if Browning had been allowed by Colt to use the 1911 trigger as he wanted to it would be an entirely different gun, If Browning hadn't died again a different gun . The engineer that took over is apparently responsible for the trigger . IN 1935 FN tried to get colt to build an American version colt was heavily invested in the 1911 and with war rumors flying did not want to retool for a different weapon. It all really came down to the bottom line , and Colt and Browning being disgruntled with each other. I have only handled 2 a French army and Nazi marked one ,never fired one so every one here is way ahead of me .
Seems likely. JMB, like many / most engineers doesn't seem to have been a businessman by temperament. From what I've read, through much of his career he sold designs & patent rights outright. With a number of successful designs under his belt, I'd think he could've negotiated royalties had he tried. When he did, Colt's / Winchester wasn't having any; thus, eventually, the deal with Fabrique Nationale. A BHP using the m1911 plunger trigger ... well that'd be pretty much the virtues of the soi disant DWX 95(!!!) years ago.
 

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JMB did sell some pats out right took royalties on others .Colt Winchester and Remington bought some of his pats and never used them just to keep others from getting them .His sister kept the book and made the patient drawings . Two of his brothers made the tool room versions and made them work, they and the sister had pats of their own JMB did not work alone it was always family .
 

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the new browning book relates this pretty well. it does have some glaring errors which were probably by the editor. just to obvious to be the careful work the author did.
Just finished that biography last week. Was good, with the few errors. I thought the author's writing got better the farther one read. Might have benefited from a good editor requesting a rewrite of the first few chapters. Overall a good effort and I loved reading the more esoteric details about the family and JMB's lifestyle. Never realized he burned up the rails back east and the liner routes between the U. S. and Europe to the extent that he traveled in his lifetime. I appreciated the way Browning's life, character, and personality was fleshed out.
 

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JMB did sell some pats out right took royalties on others .Colt Winchester and Remington bought some of his pats and never used them just to keep others from getting them .His sister kept the book and made the patient drawings . Two of his brothers made the tool room versions and made them work, they and the sister had pats of their own JMB did not work alone it was always family .
After writing #187 I had to refresh my memory ( yeah ... better to reverse the order ;- ) and read that JMB had one royalty deal with Winchester before changing his business model to require royalties, at least for most of his sport-shooting designs. Winchester might have agreed to royalties on that one deal because it was for a model they never produced. Thus no royalties would've been actually paid. Pretty sharp business practices, seems to me, to use on one's golden-egg goose. When JMB offered Winchester and Remington they declined what FN bought and then sold as the "Browning Auto-5".

Thank God JMB continued to work with Colt's afterward.
 
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The 1911 is one of the longest lasting and best selling firearms in history. The military made recommendations on how it should be designed and it was originally intended to be used as a military sidearm. Back then, the military was all-male and they got around on horseback which included some risks that most people don't face today. That's why the gun has two safeties on it. Now that we have just as many women in the military and law enforcement, and they don't holster their weapons while riding on horses, they are switching to Glocks and Sig Sauers. Both are fine guns and lighter weight (better for women) because they fire a 9mm and have quite a few plastic parts. So the requirements of pistols have changed over time. But the 1911 will never go away. Home defenders and gun enthusiasts still create huge demand for these guns. Try finding a brand new one from a respected manufacturer and you'll see how much demand there still is for them.
 

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I am simple mined not well educated but ,obsolete meaning:
No longer produced or used
The disposal of old and obsolete machinery.

(A product or idea) to be or become obsolete by replacing with something new.

1911s still produced yes still use I think so do we use them?

1011s replaced with something new yes more 1911s.

Is a bow and arrow obsolete

Hate what he would call revolvers!!
 

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The 1911 is one of the longest lasting and best selling firearms in history. The military made recommendations on how it should be designed and it was originally intended to be used as a military sidearm. Back then, the military was all-male and they got around on horseback which included some risks that most people don't face today. That's why the gun has two safeties on it. Now that we have just as many women in the military and law enforcement, and they don't holster their weapons while riding on horses, they are switching to Glocks and Sig Sauers. Both are fine guns and lighter weight (better for women) because they fire a 9mm and have quite a few plastic parts. So the requirements of pistols have changed over time. But the 1911 will never go away. Home defenders and gun enthusiasts still create huge demand for these guns. Try finding a brand new one from a respected manufacturer and you'll see how much demand there still is for them.
After training about 500 women* as 1st time shooters, gotta write that I firmly disagree that a lighter pistol is better for women. The 1.5kg of an m1911 is no serious challenge for even tiny, little, old ladies with arthritic hands to shoot, nor even to operate the action with training in the proper technique.

The mass of a government model 1911 makes for a more manageable recoil pulse. And it seems to me that men do not generally understand how important that is, on average, to women. Men's greater average mass is concentrated in the upper body where the recoil pulse is most acutely felt. Getting the pistol to attenuate that with greater inertia is more important in inverse proportion to the person's upper-body mass and in direct proportion [ or so ] to torso length. Thus we short, stocky guys have a natural advantage.

Not old nor arthritic, but more than usually tiny:



*- Actually that's just since I went into business on my own. More when counting two prior teaching apprenticeships.
 

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In addition to my highly unscientific studies, previously reported, having to do with groundhogs and 1911 .45 acp obsolescence, I have a few data points on skunks 🦨. Three so far. 9mm Euro pellets (Smith and Wesson model 39) worked. But not well. 2 shots and maybe 3.

1911 .45 defensive loads worked wonders, one shot each. (The remaining data points). The last skunk 🦨 we named Pepe. Terrorist of the worst sort. Little stinker would squeak out a little one when the girlfriend’s car 🚗 door opened. Girlfriend was terrified of him.

Pepe and I had an impromptu discussion about his future. At 2 a.m. My obsolete railed 1911 (my only railed one, and my go to 2 a.m. , gravest extreme, flashlight with a curious, no doubt obsolete red laser) was on my obsolete nightstand. Now.... I was only trying to warn him, mind you....

Must have tripped violently. Front half Pepe and rear half Pepe. Held together by skunk skin. Yes I do have autopsy (hastily conducted autopsy) pictures but after all this is a family oriented site.

I am sticking with my obsolete 1911’s. With obsolete caliber (.45 acp).

In the interest of scientific inquiry, I will no doubt have more data to report. I the mean time I am going to shoot some obsolete tin cans on my obsolete range in my obsolete back yard with my seriously dated side arms. BTW. My obsolete girlfriend now loves 1911’s in .45 acp. Always asks how the latest gun project is going and if it will be accurate.

Thank you.

Sincerely,
(Obsolete) Old Pistol
 
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