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Thanks BMC, I will have to pick up a copy.
Available on at least some e-readers, in case you like that kind of thing:


ed. CAUTION: 1st paste was the link from my 'Contents and Devices' ... not sure if that would've worked for somebody other than myself, nor if had it worked, it would have given some level of access to my 'Kindle' account. Test-opening of the link through 1911forum alerted me to that hazard. CAVEAT SCRIPTOR.
 

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From a strictly carry point of view, the 1911 still offers a lot. But it's time for improved frames, even if single stack.

Everything else on the pistol has evolved well. The way we use the pistol has evolved. The grip safety needs to go, and the back strap needs serious reshaping.

I'll be all over the DWX compact, when it comes out. If I can get my whole hand on the grip.
With tongue firmly in cheek.

Can this be properly termed a 1911? Yeah, I know. I'll go ahead and say it about myself. Don't be obtuse.


I mean ... it's evolved from the initial automatic pistol developments of the 1890 to 1910 period. It's frame could be said to be improved for its intended purposes from that of a 1911, it doesn't possess a grip safety, and its back strap could be said to be of a shape seriously different than the 1911. It's striker fired too, a feature which is valued these days. Why, it's even very compact and lightweight, two attributes which are valued above all other possible positive attributes of a handgun. Why can't it be considered a new and improved 1911? It'd like to grow up and out of its obsolescence and obscurity and be a 1911, one of the cool kids in pistol-dom.

The pistol is a Helfricht Model 3 .25 Automatic made in Germany between 1920 and 1929.


Begs the twin questions: what is a 1911 gun and how much really has defensive use of handguns evolved since the adoption of the 1911 by the U. S. military?

My little pea brain already strains to accept some of the design modifications and "improvements" of the original article as introduced. Clone brands and customs sometimes play fast and loose. Folks are buying 'em though in many cases, so there is a market there. When we get through with frame "improvements," grip safety deletion, and get the back strap whittled to suit (whom?) then will it still be a "1911?" Did the 1911 have a cryin' "need" to evolve beyond perhaps metallurgical improvements?

I'm only one person. The 1911 frame suite me. I'm happy with grip safeties, and like the back strap configuration(s) available on the 1911 and 1911A1s of the two World Wars So much so that I wouldn't be interested new and improved 1911s. I fail to see a good reason for any of those features to go. Other manufacturers also make other pistol designs and configurations that I admire very much and also quite a few I dislike. I can either try 'em or not.

I really admire those three out in front. I really don't like that one behind. Only one opinion.
 

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After training about 500 women* as 1st time shooters, gotta write that I firmly disagree that a lighter pistol is better for women. The 1.5kg of an m1911 is no serious challenge for even tiny, little, old ladies with arthritic hands to shoot, nor even to operate the action with training in the proper technique.

The mass of a government model 1911 makes for a more manageable recoil pulse. And it seems to me that men do not generally understand how important that is, on average, to women. Men's greater average mass is concentrated in the upper body where the recoil pulse is most acutely felt. Getting the pistol to attenuate that with greater inertia is more important in inverse proportion to the person's upper-body mass and in direct proportion [ or so ] to torso length. Thus we short, stocky guys have a natural advantage.

Not old nor arthritic, but more than usually tiny:



*- Actually that's just since I went into business on my own. More when counting two prior teaching apprenticeships.
Yup. I trained a lot of ladies for the NRA and at the end of the range qual. we offered to let them shoot a .45 1911 but told them they didn't have to shoot it for the course - just for fun. To my amazement they ALL wanted to shoot it and you could hardly tear it away from them at the end. They loved it to death. One lady was about 80 years old. I was grinning like a fool. Best job I ever had.........
 

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I really admire those three out in front. I really don't like that one behind. Only one opinion.
It got their six tho...

If I recall correctly, you were approaching, shall we say, a mature age? I was wondering if you were endowed with an awesome eyesight as all of the above are outfitted with the least visible sight options available for them.
 

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Yeah. Throw my age up in my face. Heh!

So far so good for a '57 model. Use glasses for reading except in morning hours. I have "shooting" glasses provided by my optometrist to correct for the distance to a handgun's front sight. Some days they assist for precise off hand pistol shooting and some days I can do fine without them. It can depend on the light. Can depend on if the eyes are tired. I'm sure it'll get worse. When I was young I had a yen for long snouted Smith & Wesson revolvers with their 8 3/8-inch barrels. Still have three of the original four. Some days an 18 3/8 barrel would seem to be more to the point.

Besides which, two of the three out front are kept more for collectibility than for serious purposes, though all are shot. The Glock 17 is a specimen for study and the CZ 75BD is the one that fades the heat for if I feel the need for a high capacity 9mm, which is almost never. It's a very good pistol though.
 

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Besides which, two of the three out front are kept more for collectibility than for serious purposes, though all are shot.
Which one, if I may ask, is kept for serious purposes?
 

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An interesting discussion, but, FWIW, I think the answer can only be found in an individual's own definition of "obsolete." It's a matter of what the individual shooter needs and wants from a handgun and not a matter of universal mechanics or design. In short, there can't be an absolutely correct answer to the question unless the context and definition of "obsolete" have both been clarified.

For my purposes, the answer is "no," the 1911 is not obsolete. It suits my personal needs and wants. However, for someone else with different needs and wants, the answer could be different and still be "right."
 

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for me, obsolete refers to items that are not used because they've been superseded by new technology, an example would be whale oil lamps, they are obsolete, I use battery powered lamps, and wouldn't consider buying a whale oil lamp, & there really isn't a place to buy whale oil easily. so they're useless as a lamp. 1911s haven't fallen to that level of worthlessness, they still fire readily available ammo, they're reliable and people still by them to use them. where as there are no campers buying whale oil lamps.
 

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Sharp stick > muzzle loader pistols and muskets > muzzle loading rifled stuff > SA revolvers > DA revolvers >1911 > M9 and CZ75 > Glock. > Alien?.

Carrying a 1911 now is like carrying a revolver in 1980. Nothing wrong with it.
 

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1911 obsolete? Um, no.
Took a first time shooter to the range and had the usual assortment of tupperware guns, revolvers, and a government 1911. Figured he’d go for the glock, so only brought one 1911 magazine.

I didn’t suggest anything other than safe handling tips but after maybe half a Glock magazine, he picked up the 1911 and proceeded to put one ragged hole at 7 yards.

Biggest grin EVER 😂. Rewarding for me was he’s crosseyed dominant and figured out on his own to cant the 1911 at 45 degrees to accommodate the situation. I was really impressed and it was quite rewarding to see a new shooter being born.
 

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I'd like to see a Cheeley E2 grip shape on one in aluminum or plastic, before I'd accept that. And without the grip safety.

The Dan Wesson DWX prototype addresses that perfectly. That's the next (first?) evolution of the 1911.
 

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I've seen more videos and articles that I care to remember about the so called demise of the 1911. All of these people would love to be smarter than John Browning. His design continues to live on after his death not only in all 1911 manufactured today but continues to influence current design elements of many if not all polymer pistols.

The 1911 continues to have a strong following whether from Colt or those who manufacture clones.

No, the 1911/.45 ACP isn't going anywhere.

As a military side arm? Take a look at the current countries that field the 1911 with their troops. While these are not what you would consider as members of the military elite they still arm their troops.
 

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There are more "modern" versions of the 1911 that hold their own against the latest and greatest plastic.
Nice plastic you got here.
 

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Nice plastic you got here.
Other than the slide / frame interface being 100% steel yeah sure whatever. Definitely need the extra weight of the steel frame to tame it's 20+1 rounds of very harsh recoiling 9mm... Definitely does not make the gun easier to actually carry either.
 

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As a military side arm? Take a look at the current countries that field the 1911 with their troops. While these are not what you would consider as members of the military elite they still arm their troops.
i found it really interesting that iran and north korea currently use the 1911. noko must still have a bunch left over from the early 50's. makes me wonder how long our gear left in afganistan will be used by our lovely friends?
 
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