1911Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
681 - 700 of 740 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,972 Posts
In the world of carry and duty guns extra weight is a disadvantage.
This is your opinion, which you are certainly entitled to.

In my opinion and in my world of carry and duty guns, any handgun not made of steel and in a minor caliber is a disadvantage. I am not currently on-duty, but tomorrow nite I will be, and it will be w/ a steel, 5" 1911 in .45ACP that gets 200+ rounds fired thru it each week in training. And I consider myself to have a distinct advantage over anyone I come up against. I also carry a Commander-size 1911 off-duty, but do not notice any "extra weight" w/ either weapon.

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,972 Posts
Make sure you have the same amount of ammo in each when you weigh them. It's not fair to compare a standard capacity pistol to a single stack, when it has nearly twice as much ammo in it.

Glock 41 with a single spare mag, has three more rounds (13+1+13=27) than a 1911 with two reload mags. (7+1+8+8=24). To be fair, this is how I'd compare weights. Include holster and pouches as well.
A few extra ounces of weight one way or the other is irrelevant, especially when a few of us are used to carrying far heavier weapons over extended periods of time.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,333 Posts
A few extra ounces of weight one way or the other is irrelevant, especially when a few of us are used to carrying far heavier weapons over extended periods of time.

Halleluiah! Glad you said it, because I've been thinking it. Been there, done that too.

I have to laugh every time I hear someone discussing the creative ways that they can shave a few more 'fractions of ounces' off of their 'oh soooo heavy AR' or 'oh so heavy plastic gun'! Good grief, what the hell is wrong with folks today? We're taller, bigger, fatter than ever before in history, but 40+/- ounces in a pistol is unbearable, and 6lbs, in a rifle is absurdity in the extreme! Go figure........ :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,188 Posts
This is your opinion, which you are certainly entitled to.

In my opinion and in my world of carry and duty guns, any handgun not made of steel and in a minor caliber is a disadvantage.
I know, I know, you had said that before and I am sure that I've seen you post at least one of those pics. Yours and mine opinion can differ. Them differences don't change how extra weapon weight is judged by current armed pros in the US Army, Navy, Air Force, and, say, 99.9%?, of LE organizations. This has been covered in the preceding pages.

I have to say, I am glad that your organization is allowing personally owned 1911s for duty. I hope they cover your 200 rounds / week ammo training expenses, that's over $600/ month these days.


I have to laugh every time I hear someone discussing the creative ways that they can shave a few more 'fractions of ounces' off of their 'oh soooo heavy AR' or 'oh so heavy plastic gun'! Good grief, what the hell is wrong with folks today? We're taller, bigger, fatter than ever before in history, but 40+/- ounces in a pistol is unbearable, and 6lbs, in a rifle is absurdity in the extreme! Go figure........ :rolleyes:
I think it may have to do with this.

A 2007 Marine study revealed an average load of 97 to 135 pounds in combat. A 2017 Government Accountability Office report identified Marine loads of 90 to 159 pounds, with an average of 117 pounds, and Army loads of 96 to 140 pounds, with an average of 119 pounds.

Me myself, I just don't like my pants being pulled sideways. And telling people on weekly basis that I don't know how to help with their back pains.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,972 Posts
I have to say, I am glad that your organization is allowing personally owned 1911s for duty. I hope they cover your 200 rounds / week ammo training expenses, that's over $600/ month these days.
They do not. But since I use a 750, I load those rounds in <2-hours, and my cost is $124 for 800-rounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,188 Posts
They do not. But since I use a 750, I load those rounds in <2-hours, and my cost is $124.
I hope you've enough components. At this point even for non-reloaders like myself paying somebody to reload my own components would've made more sense than buying. Never imagined it would come to this. I still have relatively large stock of factory ammo but my two months spring 1911 train-up was cool $1500 in ammo spent.

What I notice when I practice my particular routines is the poly guns allow me to move from target to target a millisecond faster. Overcoming to polar moment of inertia. Physics. Can't defeat it nor argue around it. For the same reason a firearm with more mass will absorb more recoil resulting in less felt recoil.
This is really an interesting subject. Lighter guns transition better but have less torque resistance, but still can be shot very fast. Heavier guns have higher torque resistance, easier to keep flat but harder to transition, yet people train how to transition with them precisely. So both can be shot great but there always is a question what's the optimal compromise. I did this relatively long term experiment with my competition CZs, they existed in three different weights and weight distributions and the lightest and most front-light performed the best in my hands.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
They do not. But since I use a 750, I load those rounds in <2-hours, and my cost is $124.
I stopped even thinking about the cost when the ammo situation went sideways. One week it might cost $350 for the same thing that costs $500 next week. It’s nuts. I just buy what components I can when I see them. Throw the receipt away when I get home and try not to think about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,333 Posts
........
I think it may have to do with this.

A 2007 Marine study revealed an average load of 97 to 135 pounds in combat. A 2017 Government Accountability Office report identified Marine loads of 90 to 159 pounds, with an average of 117 pounds, and Army loads of 96 to 140 pounds, with an average of 119 pounds.
That may be the case for Marines or Army. He'll, sometimes it felt like I was carrying more than 140lbs. The folks I'm talking about aren't either of those. When hiking from the parking lot to the firing line, I don't believe that .5 ozs. off a rifle makes a hill of beans difference. Even in it's worst form, though, there's nothing 'heavy' about an AR. I know, it's a fad, but, it's still silly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,424 Posts
I would be careful with that line of arguing. If we say that 1911 is still not obsolete because it can be had in a grip safety-less, double stack, polymer 9 mm format, what does that say about legacy all steel single stack ones?
:D :D
Says to me that it's nice to have options, and the more the merrier. I'm also not firmly set against plastic pistols. I dislike most of their factory triggers, and prefer a full steel gun, but I still spend about as much time with an M&P on my hip as I do a 1911.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,354 Posts
That may be the case for Marines or Army. He'll, sometimes it felt like I was carrying more than 140lbs. The folks I'm talking about aren't either of those. When hiking from the parking lot to the firing line, I don't believe that .5 ozs. off a rifle makes a hill of beans difference. Even it's worst form, though, there's nothing 'heavy' about an AR. I know, it's a fad, but, it's still silly.
Almost every American that I know volunteers to carry around >=5 masses-worth of 1911s* ... let alone the difference between a 1911 and a light-weight pistol. They ... no ... we do this all the time. For by far most, skipping a meal each day in favor of a couple glasses of water and we could carry an AR-15, a 1911 and a J-frame yet leave shallower footprints.


*- Much more, usually, in my case and that doesn't count my briefcase. Its weight is legendary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,188 Posts
That may be the case for Marines or Army. He'll, sometimes it felt like I was carrying more than 140lbs. The folks I'm talking about aren't either of those. When hiking from the parking lot to the firing line, I don't believe that .5 ozs. off a rifle makes a hill of beans difference. Even it's worst form, though, there's nothing 'heavy' about an AR. I know, it's a fad, but, it's still silly.
Yes, I understand. People seem to be missing the point. All of us can carry stuff, excluding physically infirm or disabled. I am gonna be shooting a match tomorrow so I'll be on my feet all day long. With Shadow 2, optic, four extended mags, holster on a hanger, pouches, magnet and what else, I might hazard a guess that my rig will be heavier than Mr. Rohrer's. Ability to carry is no prob.

Orthopedic illnesses are rampant in our country, even without ccw. Sure, you don't notice that all-steel on your side. What you also don't notice is a wrong posture you assume subconsciously to compensate for heavy and unbalanced load. Since I assume we all carry daily, it is a constant stressor. Nothing hurts yet and doesn't feel heavy but you're building all kinds of skeletal asymmetry, tenosynovial calcifications and fibrosis. One morning you wake up and you can't move without pain. Soon, without cane.

Forget all those silly arguments above, I am quite serious. I will bet Ive seen more people with screwed up backs than most of you. Nobody said what they did was heavy, until it was.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,333 Posts
Yes, I understand. People seem to be missing the point. All of us can carry stuff, excluding physically infirm or disabled. I am gonna be shooting a match tomorrow so I'll be on my feet all day long. With Shadow 2, optic, four extended mags, holster on a hanger, pouches, magnet and what else, I might hazard a guess that my rig will be heavier than Mr. Rohrer's. Ability to carry is no prob.

Orthopedic illnesses are rampant in our country, even without ccw. Sure, you don't notice that all-steel on your side. What you also don't notice is a wrong posture you assume subconsciously to compensate for heavy and unbalanced load. Since I assume we all carry daily, it is a constant stressor. Nothing hurts yet and doesn't feel heavy but you're building all kinds of skeletal asymmetry, tenosynovial calcifications and fibrosis. One morning you wake up and you can't move without pain. Soon, without cane.

Forget all those silly arguments above, I am quite serious. I will bet Ive seen more people with screwed up backs than most of you. Nobody said what they did was heavy, until it was.

I'll venture a guess that the main driver for most of those issues that you've seen is not poor posture nor packing a pistol, but rather lack of physical fitness, lack of strength in the core, and lack of overall health. Sure, some of that is due to injury - been there too - but ounces on your hip shouldn't account for much of anything, except for the lack of physical fitness in America today. We may have carried 140 pounds of gear in our camo-commando days, but folks today are carrying half that much or more just from the consequences of chips, fries, doughnuts, and beer. Shaving .5 oz. from a gun will not do much to offset those other issues. Don't mean to be harsh, but it's the reality.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,188 Posts
I'll venture a guess that the main driver for most of those issues that you've seen is not poor posture nor packing a pistol, but rather lack of physical fitness, lack of strength in the core, and lack of overall health. Sure, some of that is due to injury - been there too - but ounces on your hip shouldn't account for much of anything, except for the lack of physical fitness in America today. We may have carried 140 pounds of gear in our camo-commando days, but folks today are carrying half that much or more just from the consequences of chips, fries, doughnuts, and beer. Shaving .5 oz. from a gun will not do much to offset those other issues. Don't mean to be harsh, but it's the reality.
Funny you mentioned this, Ive not noticed the membership here being fitness buffs. I think over the years there been more threads about pain meds and recovery from surgeries than exercise exercise routines. That's besides the point though. The point is thar you're not shaving 0.5 oz. For a full sized 1911, weight difference with equally sized poly is 1 pound.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
I am a 64 year old with a worn out left knee, arthritis, and other parts wearing out. I am 6'2" and weigh 214lb. I work out daily. I work out because I do not want to take pills. I eat differently than I did 20 years ago. It is a choice. For me, the difference between my CZ 75D Compact weight, Sig P229 .357 Sig, RIA 10mm 1911, or the CZ 97 BD in terms of weight is negligible. I weighed each in their holsters. 2lb-5.8oz for CZ 75 Compact, 2lb.-11oz for the P229, 3lb-3oz for the 1911, and 3lb-5oz for the CZ 97. I also weighed a full sized polymer Sig P250 9mm for the fun of comparison. 2lb-9.1oz. Each with full mags. Each metal framed choice is made of aluminum or steel. I certainly can tell the difference between each in my hand, but frankly don't notice when carrying. I took a two hour hike in north central Pa. woods carrying the 1911 and extra mags. Never bothered me a bit. Each and every day one of these listed or another choice goes with me. If a pound bugs someone along with all the other items people carry, I say suck it up buttercup.

When Father Time and the deterioration of my body catches up with me, I may change my mind about what I carry. I kept the polymer guns planning ahead for when that day comes. (I have small grip module for the P250, didn't swap fire control unit and weigh) Until that point in time rears its ugly head, I'll keep working to ward off the inevitable as long as I can and shoot as often as possible with all the varying weight guns.
 

·
Registered
simplify
Joined
·
496 Posts
I am a 64 year old with a worn out left knee, arthritis, and other parts wearing out. I am 6'2" and weigh 214lb. I work out daily. I work out because I do not want to take pills. I eat differently than I did 20 years ago. It is a choice. For me, the difference between my CZ 75D Compact weight, Sig P229 .357 Sig, RIA 10mm 1911, or the CZ 97 BD in terms of weight is negligible. I weighed each in their holsters. 2lb-5.8oz for CZ 75 Compact, 2lb.-11oz for the P229, 3lb-3oz for the 1911, and 3lb-5oz for the CZ 97. I also weighed a full sized polymer Sig P250 9mm for the fun of comparison. 2lb-9.1oz. Each with full mags. Each metal framed choice is made of aluminum or steel. I certainly can tell the difference between each in my hand, but frankly don't notice when carrying. I took a two hour hike in north central Pa. woods carrying the 1911 and extra mags. Never bothered me a bit. Each and every day one of these listed or another choice goes with me. If a pound bugs someone along with all the other items people carry, I say suck it up buttercup.

When Father Time and the deterioration of my body catches up with me, I may change my mind about what I carry. I kept the polymer guns planning ahead for when that day comes. (I have small grip module for the P250, didn't swap fire control unit and weigh) Until that point in time rears its ugly head, I'll keep working to ward off the inevitable as long as I can and shoot as often as possible with all the varying weight guns.
I have faced the Reaper 7 time she will eventually win but she knows she's in an extended war!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,529 Posts
Every bit counts.

1 pound is very significant when one of your knees is swollen as a pumpkin.

After a day of USPSA or steel challenge, with very heavy pistols, slipping on my CCW belt, is like going from a suit or work uniform to my pajamas. Way more comfort, instantly.

Some of us have to watch our weight for reasons other than Instagram photos.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
I've had 110cc drained out of my knee. I get what you are saying. Not a fun thing, especially when the doc and I get into a conversation about hot rods and he forgets to numb the knee! 😁

Not an Instagram/Facebook/or whatever social media flavor you prefer type of guy. Gun forums, yes. Cars, yes. The rest, screw that crap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,461 Posts
All I’ll say is that shooting my 1911(s) definitely makes me smile and my plastic stuff just leaves me feeling “meh”.

suprisingly about a week ago my 43yr old son asked me for advice on buying a 1911 which surprised me because about 2yrs ago he wanted to buy his first gun ( He lives a 1000mi from me) and was looking for guidance, I suggested a 1911 and he explained to me that some of the guy’s he works with told him that 1911’s are obsolete & unreliable even though he’s shot mine a lot. They pushed glocks 🙄.

Anyway he ended up buying a Sig M17which is a nice piece but no 1911, so anyway he made me smile because he now wants a 1911. Makes me smile !
 

·
Registered
simplify
Joined
·
496 Posts
Funny you mentioned this, Ive not noticed the membership here being fitness buffs. I think over the years there been more threads about pain meds and recovery from surgeries than exercise exercise routines. That's besides the point though. The point is thar you're not shaving 0.5 oz. For a full sized 1911, weight difference with equally sized poly is 1 pound.
I am 74 its Tai Chi at sunrise ,a two mile power walk (1 pound weight in each hand ) really stretches those muscles, Tai Chi at sunset and next week I will start back to work . My fixed income just can't stretch that extra 30% .
 
681 - 700 of 740 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top