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I love seeing pics like that, because I always feel silly about my collection. Which will outlive me. And I'm like ''Why get another? Seems wasteful, I'm already 4 years past my life expectancy.''

A Shadow 2 is calling my name, and I can't find an excuse to get it.
 

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I love seeing pics like that, because I always feel silly about my collection. Which will outlive me. And I'm like ''Why get another? Seems wasteful, I'm already 4 years past my life expectancy.''

A Shadow 2 is calling my name, and I can't find an excuse to get it.
Seems like beating the average by 4 years is reason enough :)
 

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Frankly , I never thought it was all that great. It was not , for the most part , designed by JMB. The HP at the time of his death was a striker-fired pistol. Most of it's features were way around the 1911 patents owned by Colt.

I often see a comparison with the CZ-75. I own both , and have disassembled each down to it's bare parts and don't find many design aspects in common but the magazine and the ramped barrel..
Lots of myth in this post. The original design for the Grand Rendement and its features were not a work around the patents of the 1911. I wish that myth would die. It was designed to meet the requirements of the French Pistol Trials. The agreement between FN and Colt regarding JMBs patents played a part just as they did in the development of any pistol during that timeframe but the speculation that the pistol JMB designed was driven by his older design is simply false and unproven yet it is repeated over and over again as if it was gospel. The foundation for the pistol design the magazine was not even designed by JMB. It was Saive's design.

You are spot on about the comparisons between the CZ75 and the BHP. They have very few significant design aspects. A locked breech barrel, double stack magazine, caliber and all steel construction are about it. These aspects are shared by so many modern 9mm they are not really worth mentioning. The late Stephen Camp has great write up about it.

 

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Partial pic of the collection. They are not obsolete for this shooter. I have only been shooting them for about 15 years. The majority of them are custom builds. I decided to go quality vs quantity. I only have 2 hands LOL.

 

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Both the 1911 and Hi-Power are considered obsolete as military/LE pistols... that's a fact. The only countries still using them are those without the budget to make the move to modern striker-fired, polymer-framed pistols. Canada is still using the HP for the time-being, but they've been looking at replacing it for a long while and tend to be very slow at adopting anything. And it's not just those two designs... pretty much anything hammer-fired and metal-framed is on its way out. All you have to do is look at how many completely-new hammer-fired, all-metal handgun designs have been introduced in the last decade. Aside from specialty guns for competition and such that are based on existing designs, almost none.

Civilian users are another story. Any decent semi-auto or revolver is fine for personal protection, and it's the rules in competition which dictate what's relevant or not.
 
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Both the 1911 and Hi-Power are considered obsolete as military/LE pistols... that's a fact. The only countries still using them are those without the budget to make the move to modern striker-fired, polymer-framed pistols. Canada is still using the HP for the time-being, but they've been looking at replacing it for a long while and tend to be very slow at adopting anything. And it's not just those two designs... pretty much anything hammer-fired and metal-framed is on its way out. All you have to do is look at how many completely-new hammer-fired, all-metal handgun designs have been introduced in the last decade. Aside from specialty guns for competition and such that are based on existing designs, almost none.

Civilian users are another story. Any decent semi-auto or revolver is fine for personal protection, and it's the rules in competition which dictate what's relevant or not.
I was talking to Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn a few years ago at a pistol training class and both of them agreed it is a Glock world. The both said they see more Glock 17s and Glock 19s then any other platform when training people inside and outside the US. Outside the US more than inside because outside of the US most countries do not have civilian concealed carry and they are training people on their duty guns. This is LEO and Military.
 
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As a duty gun I would say due to its manual of arms it is not longer relevant. Most modern Armys and LEO are not carrying SAO steel framed pistols. It is a tactical plastic world ...

... If you asked the avg gun owner who is under 30 if the own a BHP or have ever shot one I would imagine the majority don't and have not.
Good points.

I am a retired cop but I am working armed security. One contract is in Los Angeles but the client does not approve of Glocks so most of the Guards there have Berettas or SIGs. I carry my BHP there.

I have had various contacts with LAPD while working there and they apparently don't care or is interesting in what Security is armed with. When I was a cop I would talk to armed security because sometimes they would have interesting sidearms.
 

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There are certainly a lot more '..modern..' pistols available on the market for military, law enforcement and personal use, with more '..features..' (a fair many of them...the much touted CZ 75 for one with a bell or whistle added...'descendants' of the venerable Browning Hi Power) but to even suggest that the well tried and time tested, proven, durable and reliable Hi Power is '..obsolete..' is decidedly short-sighted. Many of the newer '..Wonder 9's..' have come and are already GONE in the proverbial '..New York Minute..' when compared to the Hi Power. '..old..' is NOT a synonym for '..obsolete..'. More bells 'n whistles do NOT necessarily make for a better tool.
 

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The fact that we’re having this discussion on a 1911 board shows that old doesn’t necessarily equate to obsolete to most of us. What keeps the 1911 viable in today’s market is that there are very few pistols that point as nice, are as inherently accurate, have such a great trigger out of the box and can handle the larger calibers as well. Not many pistols compare to it.

The same can’t be said about the Hi Power in my opinion. There are quite a few pistols that meet or exceed what it does. They are not 100% the same or not largely based off the BHP design but have very similar features.

Nobody can take away what the BHP has accomplished. I mean, it was the most widely adopted military side arm in the ROW (rest of the world) but there’s just a lot more choices that get it done just as good or better now.

Again, this is just one man’s opinion and nobody can dispute that the BHP is a legendary pistol.
 

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I don't have an opinion of the BHP as "obsolete" worth listening to. But I bought my first T BHP in '71, later had to sell it for tuition. It was my first personal purchase pistol, and I probably only shot several boxes of 9mm, and it did have some malfunctions. Later, in '89, had Cylinder & Slide tune one of the later Forged epoxy guns, and then about a decade ago, replaced my long gone first BHP with another mint mid '60's T, and it too went to C&S. Then a friend sold me his Practical, and like just about all my pistols, off it went to C&S. I really like them, but I have long fingers, and the grip-to-trigger length is short for me, and my index finger has to curve back a bit to shoot them. But mine, all tuned and modified, are superlative pistols.

But if I were to be in a SHTH scenario, I would take one of my H&K's, (I don't own any Glocks), because having carried an issue 1911 in two wars, I know how hard it is to keep an all steel pistol from rusting without daily maintenance.

If a shooter has average hands, they are superlative pistols, but if one has really long fingers, they are less so.

I'll just say HighPowers are classic, elegant firearms. But with big hands, even a 5 inch 1911 is barely big enough to shoot. NV
[url=https://postimg.cc/qzW3pR8G][/URL]
 
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Sure, it's obsolete. But so is nearly every treasured masterpiece created by man from the prehistoric days up to 2015. So what? Chuck the Mona Lisa into the trash because now we have High Rez photography? Gimme a break.

I don't think an assessment whether or not something is, so-called, "obsolete" amounts to a hill of beans.

Says me, the guy writing on an "Obsolete" computer, to thousands of OTHER folks reading on THEIR "Obsolete" computers.

Phooey.

Btw, every day that passes makes my cool, old unusual cars become even groovier & more cherished / valuable too. Meanwhile everything NEW, from cars to electronic tech, is on a steep downward path to a recycling center or landfill.

Maybe that NEW stuff is what's obsolete.
 

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--snip-- the magazine disconnector was due his ability to see the future...lawyers. more likely a government contract requirement. --snip--
My understanding was the mag disconnect hazard was added specifically at the request (and over the objections of engineers) of the pre-war French Army (that would be the French Army that folded before the Wehrmacht despite being significantly bigger) for a sidearm selection competition. The French Army rejected the design, but France did adopt the P35 much later (they were still issuing it to some French in 2011 when I was asked to help a French naval officer -- who hated guns -- learn how to safely handle his issued sidearm [I still remember him saying in a heavy French accent, "I am not in the French military, I am in the French Navy!" -- still cracks me up].

So, I don't think it was about lawyers, it was about pathetically weak French military leadership who didn't trust their soldiers with firearms or their ability to train soldiers how to use firearms safely.
 

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While the French did request a magazine disconnect, you can't much blame them for its presence on the Hi Power, because France dropped the whole idea several years before what we know as the HP today took its final form. When Saive created the HP, he made a conscious decision to keep the magazine disconnect even though there was no prospect of a French, or any other contract at the time he finalized the design. So the mag disconnect was Saive's idea, not France.

This is the last FN pistol the French looked at, about 4-5 years before Saive created what is today the Hi Power.

Grand Rendement
Air gun Trigger Wood Gun barrel Gas
 

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but France did adopt the P35 much later (they were still issuing it to some French in 2011 when I was asked to help a French naval officer -- who hated guns -- learn how to safely handle his issued sidearm [I still remember him saying in a heavy French accent, "I am not in the French military, I am in the French Navy!" -- still cracks me up]
In 1991 I was with the 19th Air Refueling Wing out of Robins AFB, GA, when we deployed to France for Desert Storm. We provided fuel to the B-52s flying out of England to Irag. I became friends with a French Air Force NCO. One day I mentioned that we had been told that alcohol was forbidden in the barracks and he said that was true. I then pointed out that I had seen French military taking wine into their barracks. He immediately said "Wine isn't alcohol". Like you, that still brings a smile.
 
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