[1911_Kid]

So, although I believe round makers do a great job of making excellent rounds with various types of bullets, I still run my own tests.

I'll be loading some JHP's with some frangible material to see how they perform against certain targets.

Targets will be homemade gelatin (a good recipe), and layered plywood with a piece of denim on front. The ammo is all Federal JHP (same style bullet) but one set 185gr and the other set 230gr. The comparison data is less about 185 vs 230, it's more about how the 185's compare to the reference (OEM) 185jhp, and same for the 230. However, a general 185 vs 230 can be done also.


A few proprietary frangible mixes, will evaluate which ones will get loaded into JHP's for testing.

 

[blastjv]

What are you trying to say here? You’re filling the hollow point cavities w some stuff and then firing them into geletin and plywood to see what happens?

 

[1911_Kid]

What are you trying to say here? You’re filling the hollow point cavities w some stuff and then firing them into geletin and plywood to see what happens?

Yes. "special" stuff though

 

[StrangerDanger]

Wouldn’t that be considered illegal for carry ammo?

 

[1911_Kid]

Wouldn’t that be considered illegal for carry ammo?

??
Some locales might ban JHP's. The stores near me have polymer filled JHP ammo on the shelf for me to buy.

This doc is 7yrs old, so probably not 100% accurate. https://s3.amazonaws.com/com.silencerco/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Ammunition-Laws-By-State.pdf

 

[StrangerDanger]

Maybe you will get lucky and never have to put one of those Frankenstein rounds in somebody and find out later it was a bad idea

 

[1911_Kid]

Maybe you will get lucky and never have to put one of those Frankenstein rounds in somebody and find out later it was a bad idea

Bad idea? As in did not perform well like the tests, or as in a lawyer issue?

I myself don't understand the diff between a JHP I fill, or a OEM JHP that is filled by them.

That said, my SD ammo stack is all OEM stuff, proven to do the damage needed to stop a threat.

If my testing shows anything promising then perhaps I file patent and license it off to Hornady or Winchester or Federal

 

[StrangerDanger]

Legally defending yourself with any handloaded ammo isn’t a great idea

 

[StrangerDanger]

I’m not a lawyer, nor do I have anything to do with the legal system. I do know there is a reason why all cops use factory ammo instead of some jam up handloads

 

[1911_Kid]

Folks carry hand loads all the time.

I guess arss-nut lawyers could try and argue the point if the locale was favorable in doing so. As example, if the incident occurred where the majority of the locale is known to not hand load rounds, one could argue a hand load is not normal. On the flip side, if a locale is where everyone hand loads all the time, then its normal. But agreed, hand loads cause issues in the court room, but it really should not.

But for clarity, these are not hand loads, they are OEM JHP's in a OEM cartridge, with the hollow filled in, for testing purposes only. I came across a posting from someone who claimed working for an investigative unit, and has seen many deaths by bullets. He writes that not once did any investigator or pathologist go looking for anything that might have been in the JHP hollow, they only look at the rifling marks and what-not.

If my test rounds show way better results than just the OEM, and i stack my mag so this one is the 1st round, you gonna find what exactly?

If no laws around ammo have been broken, then the filled JHP (and hand load argument) is as weak as my 0.002" hair on my head

And why would anyone think that the mass producers of ammo would know more than I do when it came down to creating a round that was precisely tailored to stopping a threat w/o the risks of over penetrating or ricochet? OEM used across varying 45acp models all produce different results. So perhaps in my view, their one-ammo-fits-all is not for me. I tailor my ammo for my firearm to do what I want it to do. No different than some specialty places where special hand loads are done.

 

[1911_Kid]

Legally defending yourself with any handloaded ammo isn’t a great idea

The stuff I have is not hand loads.

But look, if someone wanted to have a special hand load for SD, then go test a shiat load of specialty hand loads to get what you want. Do not document anything, keep things in your head. After testing, stack your mag #1 and #2 with your specialty rounds, the rest some OEM crud. If you need to use you firearm for SD then make sure you fire at least twice, those are the only two rounds in existence made that way, etc.

When asked in court why those two were hand loads, its because you hand load often, and you follow the guidance from well-known XYZ hand loading book. Your hand loads fire real smooth in your specific firearm, better than any OEM crud. Then when the numbs try to recreate it and it doesn't seem to add up to the actual wound data, then perhaps they loaded it wrong, or they didnt shoot the same dead person, or perhaps your grain loader wasn't feeding right, or maybe the powder was "bad", or maybe the cast bullet you made didn't cast as it should have, etc etc etc.

It's basically a BS argument that is easily defeated, but, no guarantees in court, etc.

 

[blastjv]

This is getting real dumb real quick.

 

[1911_Kid]

This is getting real dumb real quick.

Which part? This thread was just about some testing I am doing with JHP. How lawyers & hand loads and what-not got in there I dunno. It's a public forum, not really a big deal. If you think its dumb, then move on.

 

[hub1home]

Jacketed Hollow Points are meant to be hollow for a definite reason. Why would you want to fill them in? Just shoot Full Metal Jacket like I do. It saves a whole lot of time and trouble.

 

[1911_Kid]

Jacketed Hollow Points are meant to be hollow for a definite reason. Why would you want to fill them in? Just shoot Full Metal Jacket like I do. It saves a whole lot of time and trouble.

You will see soon enough.
Like a dentist, where there's a cavity there's $$ to be made.

If you haven't noticed, I am not in this to save time, or be a mass producer of the "best" FJHP (Filled JHP).

I am taking run-of-the-mill Federal JHP's and filling them using some [add your fav secret sauce here]. I have two thought-out methods with some reasonable expectations. Now I need to actually test shoot them to see what happens. That's it, nothing more. If the OEM JHP does better than my tests then so be it, at least I will have some data points to study.

 

[StrangerDanger]

You will see soon enough.
Like a dentist, where there's a cavity there's $$ to be made.

If you haven't noticed, I am not in this to save time, or be a mass producer of the "best" FJHP (Filled JHP).

I am taking run-of-the-mill Federal JHP's and filling them using some [add your fav secret sauce here]. I have two thought-out methods with some reasonable expectations. Now I need to actually test shoot them to see what happens. That's it, nothing more. If the OEM JHP does better than my tests then so be it, at least I will have some data points to study.

Fill them with mercury and watch that show

 

[1911_Kid]

Fill them with mercury and watch that show

My JHP fill material is eco friendly

 

[StrangerDanger]

Why. If you killing folks why worry about the trees?

 

[1911_Kid]

Why. If you killing folks why worry about the trees?

Ah yikes. That is not what this testing is about.

 

[Rock185]

1911_Kid, Testing to satisfy your curiosity, good clean fun. But if you like your results, you intend to carry your ballistic creation as the first 2 rounds in your gun???

Ammo manufacturers now days do test carry/duty/SD ammo extensively, and have come up with ammunition that is quite effective. It is definitely not "OEM crud". Believe me, if your special handloads were used in a shooting, that fact would be discovered as a result of the autopsy, subsequent forensic testing, review of social media like this forum, and search warrants that would undoubtedly be served. Thinking that your special ammunition would not be discovered, is as logically unsound as thinking one could drag a body across the threshold after a shooting in an attempt to make it a "good" shooting, and the cops wouldn't figure it out. I do admire admire your apparent self confidence as to how you would defeat the prosecution's arguments should you land in court after a shooting. Even though you think that a prosecutor's arguments are BS, and easily defeated, wouldn't it be unwise to give a prosecutor, or trial attorney in a civil case, something extra to hang their hat on?