JHP Testing
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Just curious, but why are you going to all this trouble and essentially recreating the wheel, when the ammo companies have already done all this testing in professional laboratory settings?
Is it just for your own edification (which if fine, btw), or am I missing something here?
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just my own testing, for the fun of it.
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It's always fun to experiment with stuff. That was why we enjoyed experimenting with making our own fireworks, even though there was commercial stuff available that would do anything we ever hoped to accomplish with our own homegrown versions.
But since the rounds you are creating for fun here wouldn't be legal to carry anyway, you might as well test the ultimate liquid filled bullets of years past - mercury filled bullets. That without question has always been the gold standard of liquid filled bullets unless someone had gone the explosive bullet route with liquid rather than solid media.
But since the rounds you are creating for fun here wouldn't be legal to carry anyway, you might as well test the ultimate liquid filled bullets of years past - mercury filled bullets. That without question has always been the gold standard of liquid filled bullets unless someone had gone the explosive bullet route with liquid rather than solid media.
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Why? I see no reason why these would make any difference at all.
I personally think someone should devise explosive filler for larger pistol rounds like WWII era explosive .30ish cal ammo used by the Germans and Russians, that would actually allow pistol rounds to be quite powerful
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Back in the 80s, somebody was selling the hell out of explosive bullet rounds in everything from .380/9mm to .45 ACP and .44 Mag. They were absolutely worthless, pure junk. I was working in a gun shop at the time and we tested the hell out of them. Virtually no penetration. If you hit anything that had enough resistance to set off the charge in the bullet, it blew the sides of the bullet out, left a little ring of lead on the ground and blew the base of the bullet off into the ether somewhere. In flesh it would leave a very nasty surface wound, but the chances of dying from it were almost nill. They were only around for a short time though, before sale of them was banned.
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No delay fuse? That's disappointing, the rifle ammo tended to blow up in the center of the target leading to extreme damage on par with well.......blowing the target up.
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It's interesting. Some are saying why do such testing because it's already been done by the bullet makers, yet it seems every year we get a new "this one is better" bullet.
My next set of rounds to test will be slightly modified from the 1st set. My goal is attempting to get the JHP to mushroom sooner. Surely this can be done with softer lead, but softer lead usually means the mushroom does not stay big through its path.
So for now, some fun in experimenting with the aid of fluid in the JHP. This next set should be visually better now that I have clear gelatin and know more about the lighting snafu's when filming outdoors in sunlight.
My next set of rounds to test will be slightly modified from the 1st set. My goal is attempting to get the JHP to mushroom sooner. Surely this can be done with softer lead, but softer lead usually means the mushroom does not stay big through its path.
So for now, some fun in experimenting with the aid of fluid in the JHP. This next set should be visually better now that I have clear gelatin and know more about the lighting snafu's when filming outdoors in sunlight.
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The problem of making your own bullets with liquid fillers are that if you actually shot someone with one, if the liquid proved to be poisonous in any way, you could land yourself in a 1st degree murder charge. Poison added to bullets is highly illegal.
If it just makes the bullet perform better or even not, if you go to a jury trial, the prosecution is liable to hang you out to try for non-acceptable force issues. Fun to play with, but for real actual defense, a non starter.
If it just makes the bullet perform better or even not, if you go to a jury trial, the prosecution is liable to hang you out to try for non-acceptable force issues. Fun to play with, but for real actual defense, a non starter.
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I am not using any poisons.
I am not worried about any lawsuits.
I dont carry fluid filled JHP's.
But funny you say "poison" because lead is indeed a toxic poison. So you say its ok for me to use someone else's poison but not my own?
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Lead is a very very slow acting poison. I think they mean fast acting poisons.
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Testing a new concept or way of doing things is one thing. What I was curious about was why you were expending the effort on something that has already been done, and proven or disproven. I suspect every serious handloader has tinkered with things like this at one time or another just to see if they can do it. I've done it, mostly to see what is required to make it work, just in case it should every be a necessity.
One thing I've always questioned though, is why everybody (most people anyway) seems to think a pistol bullet isn't any good if it doesn't expand to at least twice its diameter? I remember when the push to get everybody using hollow points started, and outfits like SuperVel pushed hard to get that done. Even after all these years, I'm still not convinced that a hollow point is necessary when WFN type profiles have proven just as effective. We knew how effective they were long before hollow points came along, going back to the days of the buffalo rifles. We've been fooling around with hollow points now for about 40 years, and as good as they are, we're still trying to make them more reliable.
I wish somebody could give me a really good, logical explanation for this obsession. Can you?
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Elemental lead (as in a bullet) is not poisonous. To be sure, it can kill you, but not through the mechanism of poisoning you. If it could, millions of war veterans walking around with enemy bullets still in them would be dying like flies. Soluble lead, in the bloodstream is what causes lead poisoning.
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Rifter,
Every few months i see new toothpaste on TV, and a new mop, new better sneakers, and all have claims as better than the last.
There's also new bullets every year, better than the last.
If my math is correct, not every single way to make a "bullet" has been done before.
And my bad, i assumed you just meant poison, and not making distinction between slow or fast acting poison.
Anyways, i am not adding poison to the already poisonous lead JHP.
Every few months i see new toothpaste on TV, and a new mop, new better sneakers, and all have claims as better than the last.
There's also new bullets every year, better than the last.
If my math is correct, not every single way to make a "bullet" has been done before.
And my bad, i assumed you just meant poison, and not making distinction between slow or fast acting poison.
Anyways, i am not adding poison to the already poisonous lead JHP.
I'll toss out a SWAG
these bullets aren't made for hunting.
They're designed to stop thin skinned 2 legged predators without 25-30" penetration??
..L.T.A.
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Update:
Did my testing today. These rounds were through 4 layers of the denim. Both of my fluid filled rounds for this test were not good compared to the OEM round! PEM stayed in the gel, my two exited and kept going.
Good news is, I have more data to look at. Now I have a better understanding of what I need to do in my next set of fluid filled rounds.
Some basic info about todays test.
I used "clear" gelatin powder mixed to about the 9.6% ratio, but this clear gelatin seemed a bit firmer than the std beef gelatin. My gel filled round, capped with a flat plug of jb weld, the only thing I could find was the small jb cap inside the gel. The backstop was just 5/8 ply, I should have used my steel plate behind that. My filming setup was better, and I made a light plate that the gel sits on. You can see the OEM round appears to bounce off the backstop and then stays in the gel.
Here's the vid (https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/citizensfor2a.info/index.html)
It's one vid with all three shots in slo-mo. The 2nd shot was high & right and thus didn't get into the vide that good. Although this gelatin is "clear" it's not really that clear. To avoid sun glare I added a paper cone to the vid camera, so it looks like a tunnel. I really need a high speed w/o the wide angle lens, etc. 240fps is not fast enough for this type of need.
Did my testing today. These rounds were through 4 layers of the denim. Both of my fluid filled rounds for this test were not good compared to the OEM round! PEM stayed in the gel, my two exited and kept going.
Good news is, I have more data to look at. Now I have a better understanding of what I need to do in my next set of fluid filled rounds.
Some basic info about todays test.
I used "clear" gelatin powder mixed to about the 9.6% ratio, but this clear gelatin seemed a bit firmer than the std beef gelatin. My gel filled round, capped with a flat plug of jb weld, the only thing I could find was the small jb cap inside the gel. The backstop was just 5/8 ply, I should have used my steel plate behind that. My filming setup was better, and I made a light plate that the gel sits on. You can see the OEM round appears to bounce off the backstop and then stays in the gel.
Here's the vid (https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/citizensfor2a.info/index.html)
It's one vid with all three shots in slo-mo. The 2nd shot was high & right and thus didn't get into the vide that good. Although this gelatin is "clear" it's not really that clear. To avoid sun glare I added a paper cone to the vid camera, so it looks like a tunnel. I really need a high speed w/o the wide angle lens, etc. 240fps is not fast enough for this type of need.
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I have two more 230's to test. Maybe this weekend, rain in forecast.
1) an oil + grease then capped with JB weld (flat nose)
2) grease capped with JB weld (flat nose), but a modified jacket
Thus far, my fluid filled rounds are not wow'ing me when compared to the OEM round.
1) an oil + grease then capped with JB weld (flat nose)
2) grease capped with JB weld (flat nose), but a modified jacket
Thus far, my fluid filled rounds are not wow'ing me when compared to the OEM round.
New bullets have come out, but none outperform HST, Gold Dot, Ranger T, for consistent penetration/expansion/weight retention/barrier blindness/overall accuracy, when it comes to EDC loads. Temporary wound channels are pretty much irrelevant, as they only create superficial wound effects. Only the permanent wound channel matters, along with the ability to reach organs/vital blood vessels.
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