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Discussion Starter #1
I have always had misgivings about John McCain as a candidate for president. Mostly, my concerns were about his fitness to stand up to the rigors of the office. Spending many years in a concentration camp takes a toll on the body and the spirit- (I'm sure we all remember Adm. Stockwell).

Then all the other marginal things he has done came into play. Not the least of which is his 'close' relationship with Mrs. Bill Klinton, and of course, landmark events like McCain-Fiengold, et al.

But now, there's this.
McCain once considered leaving the Republican Party and joining the dems!
Ya think he'll reconsider and try it again - while he's President!

This guy is really a wolf in sheeps clothing - or should I should I say a traitor to his party? A liar to us? Or worse?
I dunno. :confused:
Can you put your finger on it?
 

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As and Arizonan for the last 30 years I have seen Mr. McCain waffle and otherwise test the direction of the political wind on a variety of issues. While I admire and respect him for his service to our country and for his ordeals as a P.O.W., I can't say as I have a great deal of trust in him. I tend to view him as a slightly more conservative version of John Kerry.

It is his stance on illegal immigration and the security of our borders that gives me greatest cause for concern. I am no more convinced he recognizes the problem for what it is than our standing president, Mr. Bush. I never thought I would live to see the day when I would come into agreement on a subject with Pat Buchanan, but I have to say his recent book "State of Emergency" was an eye opener.

Bottom line, I don't see one individual currently running for the top seat that is "confidence inspiring". It looks like another situation of voting for the lesser of two weasels. Unfortunately running for political office has very little to do with the quality of a person's integrity and credentials as it does with the size of their pocketbook.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
... I don't see one individual currently running for the top seat that is "confidence inspiring". It looks like another situation of voting for the lesser of two weasels. Unfortunately running for political office has very little to do with the quality of a person's integrity and credentials as it does with the size of their pocketbook.
+1 I couldn't agree more! (Especially about the WEASEL part!)

Oh. I just found THIS. Ann Coulter has her say!
 

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If it comes down to McCain I will vote for him. So far he does not look that good either Ted Kennedy is supporting him along with the Governator. He has also had dealings with a lot on Anti Gunners. Baxter,Pelosi ect.. With all this he is still better the the Dem running..
 

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McCain is not a hardcore republican. We have known that for years. Look at the guy's stances and record, then decide whether or not to vote for him.
 

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Latest news/rumor is that McCain crashed three (3) planes while in the service. Was known to be reckless and not fit to be a pilot but pushed into the pilot seat thru the influence of his father who was a Navy admiral. So the "less liberal Kerry" analogy is not that far off.

Anyone can refute or confirm?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm starting to like Romney more and more!
 

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Latest news/rumor is that McCain crashed three (3) planes while in the service. Was known to be reckless and not fit to be a pilot but pushed into the pilot seat thru the influence of his father who was a Navy admiral. So the "less liberal Kerry" analogy is not that far off.

Anyone can refute or confirm?
He crashed one in Corpus Christi Texas, another on some power lines in Spain. The third incident involved him being SHOT DOWN so I wouldn't say it qualifies as a crash.

This dude's paid his debt to the US...and then some.
 

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I have always had misgivings about John McCain as a candidate for president. Mostly, my concerns were about his fitness to stand up to the rigors of the office. Spending many years in a concentration camp takes a toll on the body and the spirit- (I'm sure we all remember Adm. Stockwell).

Then all the other marginal things he has done came into play. Not the least of which is his 'close' relationship with Mrs. Bill Klinton, and of course, landmark events like McCain-Fiengold, et al.

But now, there's this.
McCain once considered leaving the Republican Party and joining the dems!
Ya think he'll reconsider and try it again - while he's President!

This guy is really a wolf in sheeps clothing - or should I should I say a traitor to his party? A liar to us? Or worse?
I dunno. :confused:
Can you put your finger on it?
Trader, I don't like the guy for just the reasons you mentioned, BUT! Looks as if we will have to vote for him as things are appearing to sort out. :( Ren
 

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Sorry Double Post.
 

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I could have sworn that I saw him shaking with Kennedy.
I'm sure you did. It wasn't called a McCain-Kennedy Immigration Act of 2007 for nothing. Considering the mess this country is in because of the first Kennedy-sponsored immigration act (in 1964) I wouldn't touch any immigration bill designed by Kennedy with a seven foot pole. But, apparently, McCain liked it well enough.

See, that's what happens when you live in an exclusive neighborhood where the only illegals you ever see mow your lawn or fold your laundry.
 

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Here's what Gunowners of America has to say about McCain -

Link: http://gunowners.org/pres08/mccain.htm

John McCain's Gun Control Problem

by John Velleco
Director of Federal Affairs

In 2000, Andrew McKelvey, the billionaire founder of monster.com, threw a sizable chunk of his fortune into the gun control debate.

It was shortly after the Columbine school shooting. Bill Clinton was in the White House and gun control was daily front-page news. McKelvey wanted in.

He started out contributing to Handgun Control Inc., which had since been renamed the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. But while he agreed with their gun banning goals, McKelvey thought the way they packaged their message was too polarizing.

"I told them that Handgun Control was the wrong name. I thought what they were doing was great but I thought it could be done differently," McKelvey said.

So McKelvey struck out on his own and formed Americans for Gun Safety. Although AGS shared almost identical public policy goals as other anti-gun groups, McKelvey portrayed the group as in the 'middle' on the issue and attempted to lure pro-gun advocates into his fold.

To pull it off, he needed a bipartisan coalition with credibility on both sides of the gun debate. On the anti-gun side, the task was easy. Most of the Democrats and a small but vocal minority of Republicans supported President Clinton's gun control agenda.

Finding someone who could stake a claim as a pro-gunner and yet be willing to join McKelvey was not so easy. Enter Senator John McCain.

McCain's star was already falling with conservatives. He had carved out a niche as a 'maverick' as the author of so-called Campaign Finance Reform (more aptly named the incumbent protection act), which was anathema to conservatives but made him a darling of the mainstream media.

Gun owners were outraged over CFR, but McCain still maintained some credibility on the gun issue.

Earlier in his career, McCain had voted against the Clinton crime bill (which contained a ban on so-called assault weapons), and he did not join the 16 Senate Republicans who voted for the Brady bill, which required a five-day waiting period for the purchase of a handgun.

But as he ramped up for his presidential run in 2000, McCain, expanding on the 'maverick' theme, staked out a position on guns far to the left of his primary opponent, George W. Bush.

McCain began speaking out against small, inexpensive handguns and he entertained the idea of supporting the 'assault weapons' ban. His flirtation with anti-Second Amendment legislation quickly led to a political marriage of convenience with McKelvey.

Within months of the formation of AGS, McCain was featured in radio and television ads in Colorado and Oregon supporting initiatives to severely regulate gun shows and register gun buyers. Anti-gunners were ecstatic to get McCain on board.

Political consultant Scott Reed, who managed Bob Dole's presidential campaign in 1996, hoped McCain would "bring a conservative perspective to the gun debate."

The ads not only pushed the anti-gun show measure in those two states, they also served to undermine the efforts of gun rights activists who were furiously lobbying against the same type of bill in Congress.

"I think that if the Congress won't act, the least I can do is support the initiative in states where it's on the ballot," McCain said in an interview.

At the time still a newcomer to the gun control debate, McCain said, "I do believe my view has evolved."

McCain continued to pursue his anti-gun agenda even after his presidential run ended, and the next year he and McKelvey made it to the big screen.

As moviegoers flocked to see Pearl Harbor, they were treated to an anti-gun trailer ad featuring McCain. This time the Senator was pushing legislation to force people to keep firearms locked up in the home.


"We owe it to our children to be responsible by keeping our guns locked up," McCain told viewers.

Economist and author John Lott, Jr., noted, "No mention was ever made by McCain about using guns for self-defense or that gunlocks might make it difficult to stop intruders who break into your home. And research indicates that McCain's push for gunlocks is far more likely to lead to more deaths than it saves."

Also in 2001, McCain went from being a supporter of anti-gun bills to being a lead sponsor.

Pro-gun allies in Congress who were holding off gun show legislation -- which would at best register gun owners and at worst close down the shows entirely -- were angered when McCain teamed up with Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-CT) and introduced a "compromise" bill to give the issue momentum.

"There is a lot of frustration. He has got his own agenda," one Republican Senator told Roll Call.

After September 11, 2001, McKelvey and McCain, now joined by Lieberman, had a new angle to push gun control.

"Terrorists are exploiting the gun show loophole," AGS ads hyped. McCain and Lieberman hit the airwaves again in a series of radio and TV spots, thanks to McKelvey's multi-million dollar investment.

A Cox News Service article noted that, "The ads first focused on gun safety but switched to terrorism after Sept. 11. Americans for Gun Safety said the switch is legitimate."

However, Second Amendment expert Dave Kopel pointed out that, "the McCain-Lieberman bill is loaded with poison pills which would allow a single appointed official to prevent any gun show, anywhere in the United States from operating."

Ultimately, the anti-gun legislation was killed in the Congress and AGS fizzled out and disappeared altogether. The issues for which McKelvey spent over $10 million are still in play, however, and John McCain remains a supporter of those causes. In fact, as recently as 2004, McCain was able to force a vote on a gun show amendment.

In the post-Columbine and post-9/11 environments, the Second Amendment was under attack as never before. Pro-gun patriotic Americans who stood as a bulwark to keep the Congress from eviscerating the Constitution were dismayed to look across the battle lines only to see Senator McCain working with the enemy.

John McCain tried running for president in 2000 as an anti-gunner. This year it appears he is seeking to "come home" to the pro-gun community, but the wounds are deep and memories long.
The bottom line? John McCain is just another antigun bigot politician, guilty of treason against the constitution and Bill of rights.

No one gets a free pass to p*ss on the Bill of Rights. NO ONE.

Not even john McCain.
 

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I don't like him, but I am going to vote for the Republican in the General Election. Anyone but one of the dems.

I think Ann went off her rocker when she said that.

Regards,
Jerry
 

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John McCain is far from perfect, but he is far better than Romney who signed the most restrictive state AWB I know of.

A McCain/Huckabee ticket would be a good idea in my opinion. I could actually feel pretty good about voting for that. Romney is about the slickest, phoniest SOB Ive seen run for high office in a long time. Just looking at the guy makes me feel for my wallet.

Here are his 2nd Amendment positions straight from the source:

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/77636553-6337-4ecd-b170-49e1c07d2fbd.htm
 

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Another point that should be made regarding McCain joining the Kerry ticket is that he now denies that he ever thought of doing so. Today on Laura ingraham and Hannity's show they played the interview where he was asked that question and he replied, paraphrased: John Kerry is my friend, and I would entertain the idea of running with him.
It's about the twentieth lie that I have heard from him in about the same number of days. the most troubling part, is for one to entertain such a proposition, one would have to support the platform of the President, and offer his support wholeheartedly. Now he lies about it...

The guy is a lowlife scumbag, I have more respect for Hillary than him, at least she stands by her convictions {albeit morally bankrupt}. I wouldn't vote for either...

Now McCain is running ads touting himself as the closest thing to a Reagan on the current political scene....
 

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Now McCain is running ads touting himself as the closest thing to a Reagan on the current political scene....

And Reagan supported the Brady Bill:barf: so maybe he's right...well maybe NOT McCain voted against the Brady Bill

Voted against Brady Bill & assault weapon ban
McCain spoke generally of the need for some tighter gun controls on hardened criminals and children. In Congress, he pressured his colleagues to require background checks for buyers at guns shows, and he supported a requirement that trigger locks be sold with handguns. But the Senator opposed the two major gun-control measures of recent years, the 1994 ban on several types of assault weapons and the Brady Bill, which required a 5-day waiting period for handgun purchases.
Source: Todd S. Purdum, New York Times, p. A14 Aug 17, 1999
 

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The idea of a McCain presidency doesn't exactly fill me with joy (but it doesn't fill me with the visceral loathing that a Romney presidency inspires). Still, in the wake of the Virginia Tech atrocity, he said exactly what I would hope for:

"I strongly support the Second Amendment and I believe the Second Amendment ought to be preserved — which means no gun control," McCain said.
I realize that talk is cheap--but I haven't seen any of the other front runners say that.
 

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Today on Laura ingraham and Hannity's show...
Just bear in mind that Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity were both in the tank for Rudy Giuliani, the most liberal candidate in the primary and have now gone to the second most liberal candidate (Romney) now that Rudy is out.
 
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