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I have a dilemma and I'd appreciate any opinions. I live in California and had previously ordered a Super Grade. It is now done!!!! But as noted previously Wilson Combat was originally told that the CQB they submitted would cover all their carbon steel, carbon slide, 5" barreled pistols, including their Super Grade. They have now been told by the state that it only "includes" those guns with those charachteristics and "stamped/engraved" with CQB as the model on the slide. Wilson said it may appeal (unlikely to be successful), may submit additional pistols and await approval (unlikely from Wilson due to cost, $30,000 for the CQBs so far), or they can have my Super Grade "engraved" with CQB instead of the Super Grade logo. They would then provide me an official letter describing my piece and its historical designation. Would anyone consider this last option, or should I try and get my deposit back and wait, and wait and, wait. With the cost, the wait, and the eternity for approval, I could probably get on Mr. Heinies waiting list and still probably come out ahead.
 

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See if they will deliver your gun with a CQB slide and deliver you the SuperGrade slide separate via FedEx or UPS. Offer them your credit card # as a "deposit" and return the CQB slide to them. Not ideal I know, but legal as far as I can see. You are happy and they made the sale. It was their mistake in the first place. It may seem like a gray area but as a retail manager for 6 years I often went that "extra mile" for my clients. Test that highly touted Customer Service! Good Luck
 

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I don't think anyone is happy about the current handgun testing in California.

Heres your solution. Private party transfers are exempt from the law. Hopefully you have a out of state friend or relative who will be visiting you in the future. Transfer the gun out of state to the party and have them complete the neccessary paperwork. I'm sure Wilson will honor your request to ship the gun to a dealer for a third party transfer. When the person visits with the gun go to a dealer and perform the private party transfer.

I realize this is a pain or have the gun engraved with CQB and have it shipped to you.

I don't think Wilson is totally to blame in the situation. California DOJ is STILL defining the law. Wilson made an assumption in good faith and believed they would be able to ship the gun. Last Wednesday they were informed that the frame/slide was not what was being tested but the model was. Wilson uses the same steel frame on several models and was led to believe once it was tested that any model made with the same slide/frame combo would be accepted. This is also the same assumption that Les Baer was making.
 

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I would check with California DOJ before I went the out of state relative and private party transfer route (there is a Dealer Bulletin section on the website with a lot of Q&A). There is a provision in California state law concerning "handgun importers" which anybody becomes when they move into the state and must register their pistols. I think an out of state resident would run into problems bringing a handgun into the state and attempting to do a private party transfer, especially for a handgun not on the approved list. I am not a lawyer and would not attempt to give legal advice but I believe the current California law was carefully crafted and effective in what it was designed to do. I believe that the policy of the California State government is to make gun sales and ownership as difficult as possible, hoping that gun owners will just give up or move. California is basically a lost cause for gun owners, demographics have changed so that the Democrats will likely to remain in power with no effective opposition. The NRA has basically given up on the state as I could see no campaign to fight either the Assault Weapons bill or this new "safe handgun legislation. NRA is saying that they are going to fight these laws in court but have had little success in other California gun litigation of late. If it was me I would probably go the CQB and letter route, but that's just me.

Good Luck,

Marvin
 

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Sending the pistol that you ordered to another state/person could very easily be considered as a "straw man" purchase.. So doubt that would be an acceptable solution.

However, I love the "extra slide" idea...
Not sure that Wilson's would do that, but doesn't hurt to ask.

I know that Wilson will do whatever possible to help the customer, but for a manufacturer to even BEND the law would invite WAY too many problems... Please let us know what happens with this.

------------------
Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they AREN'T out to get you.
 

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First a private party transfer is just that whether the person lives in the state or not.

Second a straw man purchase is when you buy a new gun and give it to someone else without the gun being transfer to that individual by a dealer. The fact that the second transfer is to the owner and would be done by a dealer does not make it a straw man purchase.

Third, A paperwork trail of a California Resident requesting a Super Grade Slide with a credit card receipt to Wilson when he has taken delivery of a CA tested CQB when the gun was built with a Super Grade Slide and the build paperwork indicates that at Wilson doesn't look like an attempt to violate the law in both conspiracy and complicity? How about the fact that by serial number the gun should be a CQB? Is the gun legally safe by CA law?

I am doubtful that the CA DOJ will give you a definitive clear cut answer over the phone.
They will tell you private party transfers are exempt to the testing requirement.

Nothing in this world is without risk. Lets pretend...I'm sure your friend who had a Wilson Super Grade who had to sell you the gun cause he needed money, sold and private party dealer transfered the gun to you is an easier story than how you didn't want CQB on your super grade gun. Just my opinion.
 

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BOY! You guys in KA. sure have one HELL OF MESS out there!!!!! this is from GUNNUTS in good old PA. number 1 in gun shows in the U.S.A. sorry guys had to say it.
 

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Guys

Do not misunderstand but this is only the beginning.

Slowly but surely our market is being regulated to the point of total ridiculousness on the pretext of saving ourselves from ourselves.

In my short 50 years on this earth I have never seen a gun law rescinded. Any law for that matter.

Two rules apply in any and all industries .

Prices go up

Regulations get worse.

One small example of this and I forget what state in the Northeast but no guns produced before 1993 can be brought into it (one of you out there remember which one, possibly Maryland).

Keep your eyes open on the safety or civil aspect of the firearms industry. That sounds like the next way to gain more restrictions.

Be safe

Terry Peters
http://www.pt-partners.com


P.S. You may consider if you have an out of state relative giving you a "gift" of a Supergrade.




[This message has been edited by PT-Partners (edited 02-16-2001).]
 

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What Orion Gunworks proposed with the private party sale is exactly how I sold my Sentinel last month so I know it's possible and legal. As far as the "Straw Man" law goes, I don't know. Hypothectically, if someone buys a gun and instantly decides it's not what he/she wants, I'd think it would be hard to prove that he bought the gun just to turn it over to exploit a loophole or technicality in Kali law.
 
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