[Paveway]

Oh boy, here we go. I'm sure this one has been beat to hell and back. I don't want to start a long thread on conspiracy theories and such but I just wanted to know one thing....

Do you belive that this round, with the type of bullet it had, at the distance it was fired, take off the section of Kennedy's skull like it did?

This has intrigued me for years on end.

 

[CastleBravo]

Yeah, I consider it pretty plausible. Even fairly feeble rifle bullets have enough power to chunk somebody's head. As for the rest, well, I'm not sayin'.

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CastleBravo
The Pit: http://www.geocities.com/mr_motorhead/index.html

 

[DBR]

I have never believed that the round came from the rear. Exit wounds are usually MUCH larger than entry wounds.

 

[Cactus]

DBR,

The KEY word in your post is; usually.

But not always!

 

[BrianMajors]

I believe that it could THOERETICALLY do that, although in that given situation I don't believe it did happen that way. I fully believe in the Conspiracy Theory.

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"Double-action in an auto pistol seems to me an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem." -Jeff Cooper G&A mag Oct. 1973

 

[Doctor Sam]

Having worked in the medical field for most of my adult life I had the pleasure to read the first autopsy report done at Parkland Hospital on JFK. I later read the one done later at Bathesda Navy MC. Both interesting reading for someone who enjoys forensic pathology and firearms. You would never know they were the same patient. IMHO, the back of his head was blown off by a projectile that entered from the front which is confirmed by the film: brain, bone, and hair is blown all over Jackie and the Secret Service man in the back. And how in the world did an undamaged fired projectile end up on the gurney in the hospital? Our gov't lies to us constantly. A good example is AIDS. You remember, only homosexual men get this disease.........

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Doctor Sam

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I have shot the same model and caliber gun as Oswald was supposed to have used. I have no doubt that it is capable of that sort of damage at that distance which really isn't all that far, either from the sewer, grassy knoll, or school book depository.

Sorry, but it looks like the conspiracy theorists have been let out again...

 

[LAK]

The older designs in "solids" - or FMJ's - were often long (high sectional density) roundnose bullets of the type allegedly fired by Oswald in the 6.5x52mm M 91/38 Mannlicher-Carcano at John F. Kennedy.

6.5mm bullets of this type typically run about 160 grains with muzzle velocities running about 2,200 fps. The jacket material and thickness would determine it's stability (resistance to bending) after impact on flesh and bone.

The general effectiveness of this combination has been demonstrated by hunters like Walter D. M. Bell who used a Mannlicher-Shoenauer 6.5x54 to shoot elephants (headshots) with much success - although he switched to a 7x57 because he found that some of the 6.5 bullets would bend and deflect (As I recall; the photograph of the "magic" bullet that allegedly struck both JFK and Conally showed it to be almost pristine - perfect - except for rifling of course).

A 6.5mm 162-grain bullet at about 2,000 - 2,200 fps could have certainly been capable of doing what was graphically filmed by Zapruder.

My real doubts surround the ability of Oswald to have made the alleged shots from his position, not from any doubt about the capability of the rifle and ammunition. My own view is that particular shot may have come from the storm drain opening located in the roadside curb - a shot from which would have likely struck JFK at an angle ranging from the right side of his face (maybe further back near the temple or ear) and exiting the upper rear of the head.

 

[SaxonPig]

After many years of study and research, I believe (nobody not directly involved can know for sure) that there were at least two shooters in Dealy Plaza (been there to see for myself). One from rear and above, one from front.

I think 1st round striking the car hit JFK in front of throat. You can see his hands go to his collar as 1st indication he is hit. The 2nd round hit Connelly in the back. He said to his dying day that he and JFK were not hit by same bullet. I think 3rd round took off JFK's head from front. At least one shot, maybe more, missed the car. A bullet struck the sidewalk near the underpass, and there are photos taken before the feds could hide evidence showing a bullet hole through windshield that does not line up with any shots causing wounds.

The "magic bullet theory" is a crock. Oswald was not a shooter. In my opinion, only the Mob had money, people, and balls to do it.

Clearly people in government covered up and altered evidence. Don't know why. Either involved, or covering up for goofs in security.

 

[SamColtFan]

Recently, researchers in England have analyzed the audio tape made from the police radio open mike and have determined that indeed there was a 4th shot, giving more credence to a second shooter. That my friends, would mean there was a conspiracy to kill JFK. (Two shooters, not just Oswald.)
Regards,
Sam

[This message has been edited by SamColtFan (edited 12-05-2001).]

 

[Dogwhisperer5]

The original question concerned the probability of a 6.5mmx52mm ball round having the observed affect on a human skull- the answer is certainly yes! A thin, liquid filled, closed vessel such as a living human skull will explode when penetrated by most any rifle bullet. I agree that the head shot came from the front.
I continue to wait for a death-bed confession from someone involved.

 

[Greg1911]

something that strikes me as odd is that Kennedy was telling his advisors that he wanted ideas of ways to pull out US involvement in Vietnam days before his assasination, probably angered some powerful people.

[This message has been edited by Greg1911 (edited 12-05-2001).]

 

[Denbo]

Originally posted by Double Naught Spy:
I have no doubt that it is capable of that sort of damage at that distance which really isn't all that far, either from the sewer, grassy knoll, or school book depository.

...

I was there this summer and was absolutly shocked at how close the building and the grassy knoll were to the Kennedy. It really looks much farther away on TV and in pictures. Many a good riflemen could have made those shots. No doubt. I may be wrong, but the distance from Oswald to Kennedy seemed around 35- 40 yards. The grassy knoll seemed about 15-20 yards away. Those distances may be closer!

 

[Paveway]

I heard that a CIA station chief's son was killed in the aborted Cuba invasion (he was left to die with the raiding party) and the station chief had something to do with his untimely demise.

 

[Greg1911]

Yeah kennedy pulled out his air support for the bay of pigs if thats what you are talking about. I wouldn't doubt it for a minute that the CIA had something to do with it.

 

[Cactus]

Quick!

Honey, where did I leave my tin foil hat?

 

[shooter452]

10-4 on the tinfoil!

 

[SamColtFan]

LAK....
From Appendix X of the Warren Report, Expert Testimony:

"Prior to the tests, Dr. Olivier had some doubt that such a stable bullet would cause a massive wound like inflicted on the President. He (Dr. Olivier) had thought it more likely that such a striking bullet would make small entrance and exit holes."

So where did they find this "expert" who apparently knows nothing about terminal ballistics? No wonder there remains so much controversy regarding the Warren Report and the Kennedy assassination.

Regards,
Sam

[This message has been edited by SamColtFan (edited 12-06-2001).]

 

[Ted Brown.45]

Why did jack ruby say that the situation was "much bigger than anyone expected" before he died of a heart attack, and why did the goverment put a hold on the full release of the investigation until ?2035 or whenever?

 

[Emily W Trott]

Weren't test shootings done by expert marksmen to determine if it was possible for Oswald to have fired the shots he is claimed to in the allotted time?

As for any conspiracy I'm not saying that any of the speculation if true but lets say it is. At the time of the assasination we were at the height of the cold war. The missle crisis had brought us close to "Nuclear combat toe to toe with the Rooskies." just one year before. If some rogue government agents/assets were involved the reason for a cover-up may have been more benign than most conspiracy theorists believe.

Oswald's time in the USSR has led to speculation that he was working for them. Castro has also been suggested as a supect (possibly a good one as we tried to kill him a number of times). The US and USSR were sitting with their fingers on the nuclear trigger at the time and either one of these eventualities could very possibly have led to an attack on Cuba, or a confrontation with the Soviets. Either of these would probably have led to war with the USSR, possibly a nuclear one.

We do know that many of those who were suspected of being involved met untimely and violent deaths. Perhaps the decision was made to keep it quiet and eliminate the guilty parties. This is pure speculation on my part so please don't jump all over me.

Stay safe, Gary

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"I knew a man that I did not care for. And then one day this man payed me a call. We sat and talked about things on our mind. Now this man he is a friend of mine" Friend and Lover "Reach Out in the Darkness"