1911Forum banner
1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yesterday I took my Springfield I've been working on for a while to the range for a first-time function test with the new trigger job. I was really excited to see how the new trigger, hammer, sear, disconnector, sear spring and all of the stoning, sanding and fitting and adjustment turned out.

First 1 round, then 2, then 3...In short fantastic and obvious improvement to say the least - a crisp ~4lb trigger and an improvement on accuracy. Nice tight groups and the gun felt a lot more comfortable to shoot - at least for me. No failures to feed and no issues with the new hammer/sear or spring. I moved to full magazines and wailed away. I'm absolutely thrilled at this point and am patting myself on the back pretty well when the guy in the lane next to me tells me he thinks I'm "keyholing" and I should really find out what's wrong with my barrel.

Now, my understanding of keyholing was a bullet on an unstable path contacts the target less-than straight making an ugly hole in the target. In other words NOT neat holes.

I've never had a weapon do this before, but I've heard of it, but I didn't know what it looked like. Hell, maybe he's right. He's a LEO and is being very insistent and pretty convincing, so ok I have to test this a bit.

I decide to set aside my reloads and pull out the federal factory ammo and just shoot a nice wide spread at 10 feet so the holes don't land on each other. Same thing as before (stuck the target in my bag and brought it home):



He's using the same targets, but he's shooting all 9mm and .40. Nice neat holes.

But...I had doubts. I don't think this is keyholing. If I lift the torn paper from the bottom I could see a nice neat hole that looks centered. I'm not using any backing either. These are law enforcement IDPA paper targets - really thin.

"No", he says. "You're definitely keyholing and may have a serious problem on your hands."

After he left I pulled out the HK USP .45 I'm also working on and fired 10 rounds in that - same result - almost the EXACT same as the springer. So get an idea. I fished a much thicker target someone had discarded in the trash and hung that up. I fired from both weapons in different areas of the target. Much neater holes.

Everyone agree there's no issue here? Was this guy blowing smoke or do I haven an issue worth looking into? I don't think I do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
keyhole or keyholing: Refers to the shape of the hole left in a paper target by a bullet fired down a gun barrel which has a diameter larger than the bullet or which fails to properly stabilize the bullet. A bullet fired in this manner tends to wobble or tumble as it moves through the air and leaves a "keyhole" shaped hole in a paper target instead of a round one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
My suggestion would be to fire a few rounds at a thicker target maybe? Just to confirm before jumping to conclusions. Sorry I had to edit I missed a part. If the thicker target shows nice neat round punched holes, then I'd have to say it was probably the target being thin. However I'm no expert, but I'm sure some better informed guys on here will be able to give you a far better educated opinion than mine. I hope for the best for you though, and congrats on getting your work completed on your springer!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My suggestion would be to fire a few rounds at a thicker target maybe? Just to confirm before jumping to conclusions. Sorry I had to edit I missed a part. If the thicker target shows nice neat round punched holes, then I'd have to say it was probably the target being thin. However I'm no expert, but I'm sure some better informed guys on here will be able to give you a far better educated opinion than mine. I hope for the best for you though, and congrats on getting your work completed on your springer!
I think you might have missed this part of my OP:

..So get an idea. I fished a much thicker target someone had discarded in the trash and hung that up. I fired from both weapons in different areas of the target. Much neater holes...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
If the other guy was shooting the same targets with a 9mm, and a 40 s&w, but punching neat holes it might stand to reason that because the 45 is a bit slower it was just tearing the paper a bit more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
761 Posts
You have no keyholing issue there. Simple paper tearing because there is no backer on the paper target.
I have done this at our outdoor range. I use printable targets from the computer and if I don't staple them flat and tight to the boards provided they will tear the paper similar to your target. If they get stapled flat and tight, they make a neat hole. Shooting .45 LRN.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
310 Posts
9mm is kind of "pointy" and .40 reminds me of a wadcutter with it's flat nose - add a lot of speed and both will cut nice holes in soft paper. Round nose .45 will push through and tear on thin paper. My thin paper targets look just like that with .45 when i don't use a backer. You can tell it pushed the paper forward and then tore out the bottom as it did so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
310 Posts
He's a LEO and is being very insistent and pretty convincing
I have 6 friends who are LEO's and I like them and have respect for all of them- One is Chief, one detective, two Sergeants, a brand new rookie and a Highway Patrol officer. Only 2 of them know much about guns and shooting. The rest are "proficient at passing their qualifications"

I never ignore range advice, but don't give it extra weight because someone is a LEO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Not keyholing. LRN?
Yep, copper jacketed ball ammo.

3lbPull said:
Put some cardboard behind your targets.
I'll probably do this going forward now that we've had this conversation.

sw1911ct said:
...I never ignore range advice, but don't give it extra weight because someone is a LEO.
I agree. I try to be respectful but if I don't agree I'm not going to argue with people at the range - LEO or not. I even lent an ear to his concerns even though he was raining on my parade a bit. However, if it was a legit concern I'd want to know about it rather than blissfully being unaware.

Thanks all - I didn't think I had an issue here, but I figured getting some opinions would set my mind at ease.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,607 Posts
I find that if I'm shooting paper targets as in the OP if I use some large hardware store spring clamps at the bottom of the target to add a little weight, it eliminates the irregular shapped holes. Been doin' it for years. The spring clamps are a standard part of my range stuff. They also stabalize the target when it's windy especially if I add a piece of wood to stiffen it.

Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,394 Posts
There's no problem. That's a newsprint-type paper and it has a grain to it. See how they're all oriented about the same?

Take a news paper and rip it top to bottom-- you can tear in a pretty straight line. go side to side and it's all over the place. Take it from someone who makes at least one piñata a year:)
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top