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Last week I found, what I thought and still feel to be a tremendous deal at local gun shop. A Kimber CDP Compact "used" for $700. Looks like new! I did not have the cash on hand at the time so I placed it in layaway. Since then a friend of mine directed me to your invaluable forum. I have read up on many problems and successes shared by members. Today I went back to the the gun shop to gather more info on the weapon. I found that it is a Custom Shop series II with an EX, night sights, aluminum frame, etc.
I guess at this point, I would like to ask all of you if this purchase will be beneficial or am I looking at heartbreak after I bring it home?

I was hoping this would make an excellent CCW weapon, currently I am carrying a stainless Sig P232 w/ night sights.

:hrm:
 

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Welcome to the 1911 club!:rock:

Well, Devo, I think that you did well. Of course, as 'the friend that directed you to this invaluable forum', AND the guy that you told before your wife, I am somewhat biased!

I do shoulder some blame for letting you shoot mine last year. I would guess that the only hearbreak that you will suffer will be from the wife.
BTW, she confirmed at lunch today that you are solidly in the doghouse! :p

We need to shoot that puppy as soon as it comes home.

Wait until he dives into the aftermarket parts, guys! I have already been talking up the Alumagrips.

Jamie
 

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Devo,

I think you did good with choosing the Compact CDP, but here are some things to do and watch for.

First, I would dump the Kimber magazine for a Wilson or Tripp Cobra or even the new Kim-Pro magazines that Kimber offers that IMO should come with the gun, I would do this ASAP. The Kimber mags that come with the gun are O.K. but are poor quality and often give you trouble with feeding.

Second, shoot 400 - 500 rounds through it to make sure the external extractor is a good one. If it is a good one and you do not have feeding or ejecting problems then you have a good carry weapon, find a holster and call it good.

If you do have FTF or FTE problems (some Kimber ex-ex are known to have problems) then my suggestion to you would be is to call Kimber and get the latest ex-extractor design and put that in the gun. Shoot it some more, if the problem goes away then you are good, if not then you have a choice to make.

1) send the gun back to Kimber for them to fix it and or replace the slide to an in-extractor design as they have been doing of late.

Or,

2) do as I did, I also bought a CDP in the Ultra configuration for about the same price you did but I found one with the internal-extractor design so I had no FTE problems but I did have some FTF problems even after changing the magazines to Tripp and Wilson mag's! I dropped it off to my local gun smith who by the way is the best in the area. He did a full reliability job, tuned the extractor to the gun and I did a lot more to it but that is all that you will need to have done.

The reliability job, extractor tune, and a trigger job to a crisp 3 1/4 pound pull for carry (optional) cost me $90.00. Like I said I went ahead and had him do a lot of other things to the gun but that was my preference (not a necessity) while it was in his shop to go ahead and change some things to suit me. It is an awesome gun that is 100% reliable now.

Chances are everything will be fine with your CDP, I am just posting my experiences with them and what you should change that are low cost items if you would have problems with it. You cannot beat the price your are getting it at so a few tweeks to it is not so bad if needed.

Good luck with it.

CG.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the advice CG!

I guess I won't fully know what to expect until I get a chance to light 'er up. By reading some of the experiences of fellow members I have learned a great deal in a short amount of time. I am looking forward to taking her to the range and reporting back to you! It seems unanimous that I must acquire at least some Wilson mags, I also picked up a huge tip to not use McCormacks with metal followers on an aluminum frame.

Thanks again for your reply! :D
 

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I found that it is a Custom Shop series II with an EX
If EX means EXternal extractor don't touch this with a stick!

You'll certainly find many folks who've had no problems at all with this device. Too many have.

I can go into a litany of things I don't like about the CDP, but mine with the INternal extractor was trouble free.

-- Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
That's what I have been worried about. It seems a great deal to pass by. From what I have read, some of the EXtractors work beautifully while others are prone to problems. The only way I will know for sure is to get my hands on her and burn a few hundred rounds. At worst, it sounds like I am looking at the cost of a few trips to Kimber to get it corrected, possibly with an internal exchange.

Thanks for the heads up!
 

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Be careful,

I traded a 3 inch Ultra CDP, the external extractor was beginiing to show signs of eratic extraction, plus I really wanted a full size 1911 anyway.

The new Kimber models I have seen lately have internal extractors and a friend of mine is one of those people whose"ex ex" on his 4" TLE has been replaced by Kimber with a new slide with IN EX. There's a lot of smoke around Kimber's external extractor systems, on the less than 5" slides.
 

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My CDP

I am the proud owner of a CDP Ultra Carry II. I bought it used about a year ago. It was in "almost new" condition and had the INTERNAL extractor. I did a F&B on the weapon and mags. I also changed the Kimber mag "guts" to Wilson. I put 300 rds. through it and then started looking for a carry load. I have a grunch of the old origional black box Black Talon so I tried them in the weapon. They shoot 1" high at 7yds and function perfectly. This is my only CC weapon and I carry it everyday. Small,light,easily concealed,and enough firepower for me. I love it. The only other thing that I did to it is put a set of VZ linen micarta grips on it.-------
 

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Devo --

There's a reason this "like new" CDP is for sale. Think about it. Probably not because of the cosmetics.

If you're going to count on a pistol as a weapon stay away from this one.

If you want to spend months getting the pistol to work go with the EXternal extractor :biglaugh:. It'll cost you nearly $50 to send it back to Kimber the first time and you'll be without the pistol for weeks at a time.

Even if it works out of the box or Kimber gets your EXternal extractor to work you're stuck with a proprietary extractor which seems destined for "collector" status.

I'm firmly convinced the Kimber EXternal extractor is not reliable. Waiting for Kimber to replace the slide with an INternal model may never happen, it's their option, not your's.

There are plenty of reliable pistols in this size available. Kimber makes many of them!

This one works. No surprise, it has the INternal extractor which anyone can tune or replace if it breaks. I sold my EXternal extractor Kimber Ultra to get this new-old-stock Ultra. They're back in production, a shooting buddy of mine just bought a PAIR of them. The new versions of this pistol have a feed ramp on the barrel for increased reliability. This one lacks that feature but has never, ever bobbled.



-- Chuck
 

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Devo,

Don't let Chuck scare you ;)....the vast majority of external extractor models function with no problems, mine included.
Are there "problem" ones out there? Sure.
Do some members of this forum have problems with them? After reading the repeated obsessive bashing of them, I would guess so.
Does that mean that the one you are looking at is "destined to fail"? Of course not!

Just one man's opinion, but rather than count the number of "bad Kimber" posts, I would count the number of "bad Kimber" posters.

Good luck. :)
 

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sarhog said:
Devo,

Don't let Chuck scare you ;)....the vast majority of external extractor models function with no problems,

Ditto. If you do a search on chucks post you will find he had a bad experience with Kimber and uses every oppurtunity to bash them and post his pics. Even if by some small chance your pistol does have a problem Kimber will take care of it.
 

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If you do a search on chucks post you will find he had a bad experience with Kimber and uses every oppurtunity to bash them and post his pics.
Lets get it straight. :p

I had an extremely bad experience with a Kimber EXTERNAL extractor. Took none (9) months to get the pistol to work.

If you'll note my recent photos like the one above, the pistol is a Kimber with the internal extractor. I carry this pistol much of the time 'cuz the 23oz (empty) weight is very handy. I don't bash Kimber per se, but I think the Kimber EXternal extractor is a defective and dangerous design.

Bad samples with the EXternal extractor are just too common.

You have a choice.

I found dealing with Kimber customer service 15 months ago to be an exercise in futility, as have others. Perhaps they're better now.

First time I sent the EXternal extractor pistol in for repair (it refused to extract cases during the first magazine) I got the pistol back dirty and nothing else. Still wouldn't extract. Likewise after the second trip to the factory. I finally got my pistol running by having Kimber send me the extractors and after two more I found one which worked.

Common fix after a couple of trips to the factory now appears to be a new slide with internal extractor.

Why go thru this exercise? Even for a range pistol. Get the proven design up front.

-- Chuck
 

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OK, Chuck, you had a bad experience. You are incorrect that every experience with Kimber will mirror yours. Stop grinding your axe at someone else's expense.

Devo, don't let this guy rain on your parade with your new Kimber. Remember that the anonymous nature of the internet creates lions from mice. Opinions are a dime a dozen - make your decisions based on fact.

Jamie
 

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You might wanna check out this poll:

http://forums.1911forum.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=630

Heres a breakdown for the pro/ultra category:

Internal Extractor
Works...: 81 (092%)
Problems: 07 (008%)
Total...: 88 (100%)

External Extractor
Works...: 59 (066%)
Problems: 31 (034%)
Total...: 90 (100%)​

Note that the poll doesn't differentiate between the kind of problem (i.e. FTF vs FTE), but theres a clear trend going on here. On the positive side, if your Ex-Ex Kimber is not working, chances are if you send it back Kimber will put an In-Ex slide on.
 

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It's easy to blame the faultiness on the External Extractor, but keep in mind that many reliable modern handguns use Ex-Exs. Point in case, Wilson Combat's 1911-based KZ-45 has an "outie", and you hardly ever hear complaints about WC pistols. A lot of people continue to extol the "innie" for whatever reasons, but when it comes down to it the Ex-Ex has many virtues that they conveniently neglect.

Kimber should have tested the Ex-Ex thoroughly before rushing it to retail and now its turning around and biting them in the ass.
 

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jashsu said:
It's easy to blame the faultiness on the External Extractor, but keep in mind that many reliable modern handguns use Ex-Exs. Point in case, Wilson Combat's 1911-based KZ-45 has an "outie", and you hardly ever hear complaints about WC pistols. A lot of people continue to extol the "innie" for whatever reasons, but when it comes down to it the Ex-Ex has many virtues that they conveniently neglect.

Kimber should have tested the Ex-Ex thoroughly before rushing it to retail and now its turning around and biting them in the ass.
I agree with you that there are many Ex-ex designs that are proven with other gun's, like the Browning HP's, S&W 1911's and as you said the Wilson KZ's as well as others out there. Kimber's design is/was a failure though, yes a lot of them do work but a very large percent of them do not/did not until after several design changes but now it is to little to late. I am like Chuck I will not buy a Kimber with an Ex-ex in it, but that is just my preference! to not warn others that are not familiar with Kimber's design flaw would not be fair to them IMO. We are all just stating our experiences with them, that doesn't make it law. It is no secret that Kimbers Ex-ex design (especially the shorter models) has had many problems and Kimber admits this and to my knowledge is working it's way back to the original internal design that is proven to work reliably for them.

I just wish Kimber would make them like they used to, hence the 25th Anniversary model's.

CG.
 

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Heres my 2 cents...I purchased 1 earlier this year and absolutely love it...I have a new series 2 w/3 kimber mags with wilson followers and pachmyer grips..it is my primary off-duty carry gun and i trust my life with it...I did wait until I had 800 rounds through it to be convinced....I just replaced the guide rod spring and am ready for another 800...Congrats on your purchase you wont be disappointed.
 

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At no time have I claimed every EXternal Kimber extractor is a POS. But there are just too many problems to fool with this design. It appears even Kimber is abandoning it from the number of new pistols just released without the device.

If you understand that a failure to extract jam your pistol and this could kill you in a street engagement -- assuming the other guys are also shooting -- you'll understand why I totally distrust this design. On the range this is merely an embarassment.

Funny thing is EXtermal extractors have been on pistols for 100 years and most of them have no problems at all.

-- Chuck
 

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In 2003, the latest available statistics from the ATF, Kimber made 44,250 .45 pistols. I'll bet that the 2005 numbers are similiar, if not higher. A poll of 180 does not indicate a trend, one way or another, about the extractor. Barrel / slide length (speed) is also a factor which is not indicated in the poll.

If there are issues, Kimber will fix them, or go out of business. I am not a Kimber expert by a longshot. Devo needs to be diligent, and he will be fine with his purchase.

Extractors are a PITA, though. I had issues with my SA Micro internal. I finally replaced the OEM SA part with an Ed Brown Hardcore, and never looked back. Seems that the OEM part was junk, even after a 2nd one. I did some research, and figured this out on my own. Strange that an OEM looks to save $$ in production, and quality suffers.

I don't know the Kimber system well, but my SW1911 works perfectly. If Kimber has moved to the external without sufficient R&D, they will pay for the problem in the long run. I wonder if the shorter length of the Kimber design allows less controlled leverage - who knows.

Either way, Devo can have Kimber fix the problem, IF he has one. If there was that much of an issue, I am sure that the instaneous communication of the internet would crucify Kimber immediately. I have not yet witnessed that crucification.

Jamie
 
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