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Hi All,

I'm new to this forum and 1911's. I'm not new to handguns and shooting, but for the last few years I was mostly interested in rifles. I have a CZ and glock and had a Sig before, but seem to come back to wanting to buy a 1911. From reading this forum and checking out prices in my neighborhood I sort of narowed it down to Springfield loaded and Kimber Classic II. I get get either one for around $650. What do you guys think? It seems that latelly people are not too happy with Kimber, so I'm a bit worried about that. Also, it seems that many people are suggesting Colt, but it just seems that I'll get more custom touches with the other two. I'm mostly interested with shooting at the range with self-defence as an almost none existent possibility. None the less, I want the gun to be reliable and shoot well, as that is what I expect from any product I buy, perform as it should.

Thanks,
Alex.
 

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It looks like nobody wants to touch this one...

I'll wade in...a little. But first, why would defence be such a far stretch? I would guess that there is a criminal or two in LA? Anyway, I have a TLE RLII with the external extractor and I love it. I have been around a lot of kimbers lately and have seen no problems with the series II guns. I am getting the suspicion that these problems are blown way out of proportion. Check out the Kimber TLE, but be sure that you look at one with the external extractor. I love my 1911 and want another. Now, if you have the bucks, you might step up to a Smith and Wesson 945. That is a great pistol that will never be cursed by many of the problems that historically plague the more traditional 1911s. As to the springfields? I can't say since I don't own one.
 

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I have two Kimbers, the second I bought two months ago and can't be happier. I have 1600 rounds trough first (Pro CDP II) and about 300 rounds through second (Custom Eclipse II).

Igor
 

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These days I think it's a lose/lose proposition. For me there is no new 1911 on the market under $1k that does what I'd ask of it. The Kimber Series II safety bothers the hell out of me, Springfields are import parts guns with sharp edges, the Colt XSE is close but has the wrong grip safety & sites, and the Dan Wesson Pruitt has a horrible bluing and engraving/rollmarks, and the "chevron" serations look silly.
Of the bunch, the Dan Wesson Pruitt is probably the easiest to fix, as no matter what I bought I'd send to www.apwcogan.com for a matte chrome finish, and they could re-assemble it with night sites for probably no charge (other than the cost of you buying the sites & sending them along with your pistol).
I'd say if you want something good out of the box, buy a used Series I Kimber, but then most of the people selling them right now know what they have and are asking $800 and up for them.
 

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The whole Series 11 thing is way over blown just like the MIM.
For some reason so many people worry about things that will never
happen. All makers have some problems from time to time. One of
the reasons that Kimber outsells all the others is because Kimber
owners are happy with there gun. They go out and buy anther
and another. Not because they are stupid or like to waste money,
but because out of the box they are a wonderful gun that will last
a long time and shoot better than 90% of the buyers. I think that
for the money the basic Kimber is the best 1911 of production guns.
 

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My two cents...

I'm very happy with my Kimber Target II, and I'm very happy with my Loaded Compact. The slide/frame fit on the Kimber is much better than the SA, and the trigger is quite nice. The Compact fit is a bit loose, and the trigger is a little heavier. The SA is my carry gun, so I find the fit and trigger to be exactly what I want. It seems that with both guns you should look at them on a per-gun basis. I've seen a wide range of QC on each, within the same make/model.

-B
 

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sam1963 said:
The whole Series 11 thing is way over blown just like the MIM.
For some reason so many people worry about things that will never happen.
Do you CCW? Sounds to me like you're worrying about something that, statistically speaking, will never happen.
I don't like the series II for a myriad of reasons (and yes, I own one). The first is that the schwartz safety is redundant and unnecessary, and as such is just a useless feature that, when it breaks, could have catastrophic effects (excuse me mr. mugger, could you wait a week or 12 while I send my pistol back to the factory and have them replace these useless broken parts?). The second problem that I have with it is the "we know what's best for you" mindset of a company that would put something so ridiculous on a pistol. I never owned a S&W auto because of the magazine disconnect, and I'm really starting to wish I didn't own a Kimber with a schwartz safety. The fact that it exists on the gun does not allow me to feel confident in the gun, and as such it is worthless as a self-defense piece.
 

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if its a 10 get the kimber...

other than the 10mm special edition,I prefer springfield.
 

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norman74 said:
Do you CCW? I'm really starting to wish I didn't own a Kimber with a schwartz safety. The fact that it exists on the gun does not allow me to feel confident in the gun, and as such it is worthless as a self-defense piece.
RANT RANT RANT. I'd worry more about missing my target. I have Kimbers from 1996 to the II series. Out of the box you can't find a better gun. PERIOD.
 

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I asked myself the same question when I decided to buy a 1911, and I went for the Custom II. And I'm VERY happy with it, 3,000+ rounds later. Not a single series II failure, and has been 100% reliable. The only thing I regret is not waiting till the TLE came out...
 

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REDDAWN said:
RANT RANT RANT. I'd worry more about missing my target. I have Kimbers from 1996 to the II series. Out of the box you can't find a better gun. PERIOD.
What does "RANT RANT RANT" mean? You don't have a rational response?
If those redundant and useless parts break, you will NEVER get a chance to miss your target. Defensive guns must be reliable, to a fault, first and foremost. THEN you can worry about accuracy.
 

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norman74 said:
What does "RANT RANT RANT" mean? You don't have a rational response?
If those redundant and useless parts break, you will NEVER get a chance to miss your target. Defensive guns must be reliable, to a fault, first and foremost. THEN you can worry about accuracy.
Norman I couldn't use the word that I wanted to so I went with RANT. I have been in combat in Viet-Nam, Cambodia and South Africa. PLEASE give me the name of ANY gun that is 100%.. 100% of the time? I'll be buying it Monday. I have carried many name brand 45's. And I will tell you, Out of the box Kimber beats them ALL...
 

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Hey, I have a little question that I am hoping doesn't start some kind of flame war, but here goes. I don't have any Springfields, but everyone I know calles them parts guns and streses the fact that they are import guns. Are they not well fitted? Where are they manufactured? Is it a big deal that they aren't made in the USA? Does that affect service? I am not bashing springfield, just curious. I like the looks and price of the Milspec, but I do want it to work...
 

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FedDC said:
Hey, I have a little question that I am hoping doesn't start some kind of flame war, but here goes. I don't have any Springfields, but everyone I know calles them parts guns and streses the fact that they are import guns. Are they not well fitted? Where are they manufactured? Is it a big deal that they aren't made in the USA? Does that affect service? I am not bashing springfield, just curious. I like the looks and price of the Milspec, but I do want it to work...
I do have Springfields. Two of them. I started this whole 1911 "hobby" about three years ago with careful comparisons, relying a lot on the collective opinions on this forum. I really wanted a WWII Colt, but soon found they were too expensive and I wasn't expert enough to know if I was getting the real thing. I decided Kimbers were overrated and overpriced. I bought the Springfield Loaded, $525 plus shipping, and found a FFL dealer who accepted it for no charge, and couldn't be happier. Said I would never buy another handgun.
Well, then Colt comes out with their WWII "limited production" and though I would have bought one had they not so obviously manipulated the prices, I decided not to.
Then Springfield came out with the WWII re-issue and I decided I could stand a backup. Got one three weeks ago, $389 at the Houston gun show, haven't shot it much yet but it shoots ball and hollow-point from three different kinds of mags and it's already my favorite.
As for the foreign-made thing, I have driven quality Japanese cars and trucks for years and now have two quality Brazil-made 1911s, and don't care if everyone doesn't jump on the quality foreign product bandwagon at all because they'll be just a bit cheaper for me.
Colt can go to hell as far as I'm concerned, or to Brazil, whichever is closer.
 

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norman74 Has YOUR Kimber let you down? Has your Series 11
parts broken? I will agree that the safety is not needed and agree
with you 100% on not wanting the mag disconnect, that is different as far as function goes. Please tell me your opion on why Kimber outsells all others and has so many repeat buyers.
 

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sam1963 said:
norman74 Has YOUR Kimber let you down? Has your Series 11
parts broken? I will agree that the safety is not needed and agree
with you 100% on not wanting the mag disconnect, that is different as far as function goes. Please tell me your opion on why Kimber outsells all others and has so many repeat buyers.
Does Kimber outsell all others? I haven't seen data on this in a long time. However, let's assume that they do...
How long has the Series II been out? A year? I know I bought my Kimber based on the reputation of the Kimbers I sold several years ago. I never had a single one come back. Ever.
However, I really couldn't care less what every else buys. Lots of people drive Honda Civics too, but I wouldn't be caught dead in one.
 

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REDDAWN said:
Norman I couldn't use the word that I wanted to so I went with RANT. I have been in combat in Viet-Nam, Cambodia and South Africa. PLEASE give me the name of ANY gun that is 100%.. 100% of the time? I'll be buying it Monday. I have carried many name brand 45's. And I will tell you, Out of the box Kimber beats them ALL...
Who said anything about 100%? The question is, why make a combat firearm more complicated than it has to be? Every part you add is just one more thing to break. Not only that, but it likely makes OTHER parts weaker. Lets go back one generation, to the introcudtion of the Series 80. Put a series 70 firing pin and extractor next to a series 80. Which one do you think is going to break first?
Your 100% is actually a good point. In an imperfect world, with imperfect machines, made and invented by imperfect men, why on earth would you build something with MORE of a chance of being imperfect? Especially something as redundant and unnecessary as the Series II safety!
Surely a seasoned combat vetran like yourself knows why the AK is so much more reliable than the M16, right?
 

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I recently purchased my first 1911. I did so after much research and thought. I looked at the Kimber. I looked at the Springfield. I bought the Springfield. The issue for me was an apparent lack of consistent quality on the part of the Kimber. Another issue was the abundance of MIM parts in the Kimber. Without wishing to get into the MIM part controversy, suffice to say, I just do not trust them. I am very pleased with my decision.
 

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FedDC said:
I would guess that there is a criminal or two in LA?
Yeah I would think so. I remember reading some speculation towards how many divisions of underground resistance gangbangers could be put together using special forces A teams in LA if the west coast ever got invaded.

:p

Personally Id go with a Springfield Loaded because of the Kimber II safety and thats the only real reason. I dont trust it. I have a SA Mil Spec that runs very well. The extractor wasnt tuned right when I got it so I put in an AFTEC.
 
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