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Discussion Starter #1
What is the Kimber plan? When I got my first one in '99, it was $1000.00 less than a Les Baer or Wilson Combat. Now they are more like $500.00 less. I have two and my friends have a dozen between them and we have never had the quality problems reported here. Is it picky owners with bad ammo or are we the lucky ones with the good guns? Opinions please.
 

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As for marketing, Kimber will (and should) get what the market will bear. That is American capitalism at work!

I have a new Custom Stainless Tartget with about a 1000 rounds through it and have not had a single failure of any type! Started out with 600 rounds of UMC 230gr ball and now use 185gr JHP reloads (using a WIDE variety of brass). It just keeps going and going and going, kinda like that rabbit on TV!

My boss has put about 300 rounds through a new Gold Match Stainless and it too has been perfect. Mostly 230gr UMC and a little 185gr JHP reloads.

Maybe the NY'ers are afraid to send the lemons to Oklahoma!


Bottom line... I will be buying a Compact Stainless soon expressly for CCW.

Greg
 

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Mastermind,

I can understand where you are coming from.

I think that everyone is looking for something perfect to hold onto in this crazy world now-a-days and pro-gunners, like yourself, want to make that perfect thing to hold onto a piece of steel that rapidly puts holes in everthing it comes into contact with.

This isn't wrong, it's just a common dream those like us enjoy thinking about all the time.

Now when a small snag is introduced into the equation once in a while, like a FTF, a premature slide lock up, or an occational broken sight.....well that is just enough to crush our common dream of putting holes 2 inches apart in everything we see.

To a non-gunner, not a big deal, but to us, sometimes that means the world. We catch them saying things like, "Take it easy, it only makes small holes"............but in our heads, we are saying, "yeah, but their my holes".

So, to make a long story short......some may seem like picky owners, but underneith all that is just a person with a dream.......to have the smoothest running hole puncher possible.

God Bless America...


[This message has been edited by sureshot (edited 07-06-2001).]

[This message has been edited by sureshot (edited 07-06-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Don't get me wrong, I love the 1911 and especially Kimbers. I will own more of them in the future and I don't plan on selling any, either. I just don't see Kimber's plan. Les Baer and Wilson will charge an arm and a leg even if it means they only sell a limited number of guns. Their budget models are still very expensive. It's hard to start big and work your way down. Kimber started small and is working their way up. That makes sense. Unfortunately, they seem to be abandoning the low end of the market as they go, but not yet achieving the prestiege of the high end competitors.

Can you tell I work in marketing for a living? I need more data. How many guns a year does Kimber make/sell? I heard 70,000 for 2000, but that sounds high. I also wonder what the same data is for Baer, Wilson and SA.
 

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Kimber's base model ("Custom Classic") has only increased in price between 100 & 150 dollars. The problem is, no one BUYS that model anymore, opting for the more expensive (and generally neater :) models like the CDP.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
My local gun shop promotes the base line of Springfield Armory for the new 1911 buyers. They move people to the Kimbers when they have $800+ to spend. The Custom is a great gun, but it is hard to sell entry level stuff when a couple of hundred dollars more will buy something really cool. That is the essence of my question. I think they should offer the Custom as cheap as possible realizing that 1911's are addictive. If SA hooks the new buyers, they may never move to a more expensive Kimber. They might jump right to a Baer or Wilson. I often offer entry level product at or below cost to hook new buyers into my product lines. It's just something I see happening at the local shops every weekend. Just thinking out loud.
 

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Kimber blue classic - $580
Les baer - $1500 or $1600

I don't see your point here.

A new SA is going to run about the same price in my area, maybe $30 less.

As Firearms was saying, it's just that everyone wants a $1000 CDP, and kudos to Kimber for offering it.

Seems to me it's SA that's hiking the prices in the last few years, seeing that Colt is our of the picture.
But even this is due in part to their higher quality and high-end parts (e.g., titanium firing pin.)

I like it myself.
You get what you pay for.
If you want to get a "starter" 1911 for $350 you can do it.
And from what I understand, these only lead you to a Kimber that much quicker!

My question is why someone would pay $1000 for a Kimber when they can have a Rock River for another $100?!
http://www.rockriverarms.com/pistols/default.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I am not comparing the Kimber Custom to anything from Baer. I am comparing the Les Baer pistols to the Kimber Gold Match, Super Match or Gold Combat, etc. The costs are close. I am comparing the Custom to the base SA, which in my area is about $100 more for the Kimber, if you can find the Kimber.

I am suggesting that Kimber is moving away from its roots of high quality entry level pistols that shoot like the big boys. My first Custom cost $515.00 in 1998 and it still shoots 1 inch groups at 25 yards. All of my Kimbers do, including my CDP, which I love. They still make great guns, I am just curious as to their direction.

What is so special about Rock River?
 

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What is so special about Rock River?

NOTHING!!!OVERPRICED!!!OVERHYPED!!!If I want an excellent gun, I buy a Kimber...If I wanted an abosulutely fabulous, superb, best of the breed, nothing better gun...it wouldn't be a Rock River???or a Wilson or a Baer or a Brown...IT WOULD BE A VICKERS!!!
 

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Originally posted by MasterMind:
I am not comparing the Kimber Custom to anything from Baer. I am comparing the Les Baer pistols to the Kimber Gold Match, Super Match or Gold Combat, etc. The costs are close. I am comparing the Custom to the base SA, which in my area is about $100 more for the Kimber, if you can find the Kimber.
The point of comparison that Kimber uses isn't the Super Match= the Wilson 1996 or Millenium or what have you, they're saying that for the Super Match's price, you're getting the Wilson Super Grade. Which is double the price. Now, I don't think the Super match is the equal of the Wilson's or such, but that's what they're marketing it for.
Basically, I think Kimber is trying to compete on every level, having an entry gun to easily pull someone away from teh SA, and at the same time, trying to offer their higher priced model's to those that want more and have the money for it. (Even though most user's would shoot just as well with the Custom Classic IMO)
 

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youngun,

I've heard several people say that Colt is, as you said, "Out of the Picture."

Why is this? I don't want to start an arguement here, but I'd like to know why you say that.

Tom
 

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MasterMind, I think I see what you're trying to say.
But check this out >>
$584.00 NIB 45ACP. Am a Kimber Master Dealer. Entire Kimber line availiable. No additional charge for Credit Cards.
Seller: BAUER SHOOTING SUPPLIES <<

I pulled it off of gunsamerica.
I routinely see entry-level Kimebrs for under $600.
If you got one 3 years ago for $70 less, I'm not sure they aren't still offering these high-quality, low-price pistols.

I think you can still pick one of these up, throw all the goodies on it, and come out with a top-end pistol for around the price of a Baer or Wilson (maybe less!)

Tachyon:
I probably don't really agree with myself.
I still see new Colt's everywhere I go, it's just that last year (?) Colt "said" that it could no longer compete with SA and Kimber, and was backing out of the neck-n-neck of it.

Perhaps they've since changed their mind.
I know there are a number of die-hard (if at all!) Colt fans, and always will be.
 

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Originally posted by youngun:
Tachyon:
I probably don't really agree with myself.
I still see new Colt's everywhere I go, it's just that last year (?) Colt "said" that it could no longer compete with SA and Kimber, and was backing out of the neck-n-neck of it.
My only real problem is that Colt never said that. Rumor's and false news article's aside, they had several other dificulties that delayed their guns.
 

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I own both a Kimber CST and a Colt Series 80 that chambers both .38s and 9X23Win. My Kimber is a tank, shoots better than me. BUT there's something about thae Colt that gives me goosebumps that the Kimber doesn't quit have the thrill factor with. Which one would I grab when the boogy man shows up ? I can honestly tell you that I don't mind punishing my Kimber more than my Colt (My Colt has polished slabs on the slide). ihonestly don't think I can ever haf the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) to shell out the $$ for a Gold Match and she loves the Colt also. Maybe if I can show her a tricked out Gold Cup . . . .
 

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Originally posted by sureshot:
Mastermind,

Now when a small snag is introduced into the equation once in a while, like a FTF, a premature slide lock up, or an occational broken sight.....

Sure, "an occasional" broken sight - but what do yu call SIX sight replacements in less than 6 months ?


Since 2/9/2001, when I originally paid for my Compact Stainless, I have had 7 front night sights (Meprolight) go out - and it took Kimber 6 weeks to get me the gun with the sights on it, so I haven't even had it for 6 whole months.


Don't believe me ? Go to the website I made, read it, and if you still doubt it, email me and I'll arrange to get the supporting documentation (shipping tags, work orders etc.) to you. Website is at Night Sight Nightmare.


In all seriousness, if you have Meprolight sights - especially if they're less than a year old, check them. If they're still working, fire 50 - 100 rounds and recheck them. I have received emails from people who, after reading my posts on other boards, have found their sights to be dark. Do yourself a favor - before you need them.

Respectfully,

Patrick
 

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I have to say, 300 or even 1000 rounds through a pistol is just bairly getting it broken in. I don't really concider mine broken in untill about 3000 rounds.

Kimber makes a nice pistol. I refer to them as 95% pistols. For 95% of the folks, they will run 95% of the time. For many people that is just fine. And honestly, that seems to be Kimber's target market. And it seems to be the largest part of the market. The 1911 buying public has become more educated in large part thanks to Kimber and SA. The days of a plain jane 1911 are gone. Many people want more features to come standard and thus the market has moved away from that Kimber Classic to the CDP line.

There are others of us that expect our pistols to run 100% of the time. The workmanship and parts quality of the production Kimbers don't seem to meet that 100% level. I have had problems with all three of my Kimbers. In most cases, the failures were parts that would work fine for most folks. But when I put 3000 to 4000 rounds through mine, the softer parts begain to fail. So, I spent the time and money to put the higher quality parts BACK into them and they are now turining out to be very dependible pistols. But how much do I now have in them? Yeah... Right up there with my Baers and Wilsons.

Some of the rest of you have found much deeper problems with your Pistols. I have no reason to doubt that. I have a Polymer that is absolutely useless. I have never been able to get it to run reliably for more than 5 or 6 shots. Yet, returning it to Kimber got a "No problem found" response. Other folks have gotten great customer service from Kimber. I will say, when the rear sight fell off my Custom Stainless Target, Kimber stood right behind that problem and sent my smith a replacement right away. IF it just hadn't happened the DAY BEFORE a major match, I might not have been quite so upset.

Every company has lemons slip out from time to time. It's how they deal with those lemons that make the difference.

Just my 2 cents.

Bubba
 
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