Kimber or GLOCK
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i owned a glock for a while (until i sold it to buy my commander) and it was a nice, reliable pistol. my pro carry is great, and has been ever since i got it. i think either one would be good. the glock is probably lighter than the kimber though....especially if you go with the g36 in 45acp. good luck on your choice.
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912 Posts
Choosing a sidearm for concealed carry is a personal matter. A quick way to get discouraged is to follow someone else's advice only to end up having something that doesn't work for you at all. We're all built differently and we all have different dress codes.
In my case, there's currently three sidearms in my CCW battery. I'm good with all of them and have decent leather to carry them in. The daily dress code is a major factor in which gun gets plucked from the safe in the morning. Another factor is what's on my agenda for the day. One gun is simply not enough for proper concealed carry.
Aquire a least three utterly reliable CCW guns. One large, one medium, and one very compact. Don't go overboard with the large one (Desert Eagle) and don't get carried away with the compact (.22 short). Use common sense and stay at or above 9mm Luger/.38 Spec. Some can and do use only one weapon for year round, daily carry and that's fine. I just never went that route.
Get what works for you and put it in good leather. Then practice, practice, practice. You may be one of those rare people that uses the same gun for everything. But what of a backup?
Cheers,
Callahan
In my case, there's currently three sidearms in my CCW battery. I'm good with all of them and have decent leather to carry them in. The daily dress code is a major factor in which gun gets plucked from the safe in the morning. Another factor is what's on my agenda for the day. One gun is simply not enough for proper concealed carry.
Aquire a least three utterly reliable CCW guns. One large, one medium, and one very compact. Don't go overboard with the large one (Desert Eagle) and don't get carried away with the compact (.22 short). Use common sense and stay at or above 9mm Luger/.38 Spec. Some can and do use only one weapon for year round, daily carry and that's fine. I just never went that route.
Get what works for you and put it in good leather. Then practice, practice, practice. You may be one of those rare people that uses the same gun for everything. But what of a backup?
Cheers,
Callahan
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494 Posts
I bought a Glock mod.32 in .357 SIG,shot it and sold it within 1 week.I now have a Kimber Pro Carry 1911 in .45acp.I'll be keeping this one.just my views.tom.
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N.R.A. LIFE MEMBER
Callahan's advice is sound.
Also try to get an opportunity to try each at a range.
Glocks are the ultimate in reliability and may be the easiest handgun to learn to use and maintain. 1911 require more training to assure that it goes bang when you want it to go bang and doesn't when you don't want it to.
I've always found the 1911's to be more accurate (at least in 10mm and .45ACP)than Glocks. But I'm somebody who thinks you should be able to consistently make head shots at 25 yards as well. That's not really a likely combat scenario.
If you are a relatively new shooter I don't recommend either the .40 S&W or the .357 Sig. Pick either a 9mm or a .45 ACP since the ammo is much cheaper and shooting lots of ammo is the best way to master your CCW handgun.
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When the world is at peace, a gentleman keeps his sword at his side.
Also try to get an opportunity to try each at a range.
Glocks are the ultimate in reliability and may be the easiest handgun to learn to use and maintain. 1911 require more training to assure that it goes bang when you want it to go bang and doesn't when you don't want it to.
I've always found the 1911's to be more accurate (at least in 10mm and .45ACP)than Glocks. But I'm somebody who thinks you should be able to consistently make head shots at 25 yards as well. That's not really a likely combat scenario.
If you are a relatively new shooter I don't recommend either the .40 S&W or the .357 Sig. Pick either a 9mm or a .45 ACP since the ammo is much cheaper and shooting lots of ammo is the best way to master your CCW handgun.
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When the world is at peace, a gentleman keeps his sword at his side.
My recommendation would be a Glock 23 in .40 caliber. It is small enough for easy concealability although I sometimes carry the Glock 22 (also in .40 caliber). Either of these is much lighter than ANY steel gun, a characteristic you will appreciate after carrying it all day. Further, Glock reliability is beyond question. It will ALWAYS shoot when you need it to. And it is completely safe to carry loaded (including one in the pipe). To fire, just pull the trigger. There are no safeties nor anything else to mess around with. Just pull the trigger. Maybe you won't be able to make a 25 yard head shot with it, but you probably won't be able to do that with any other handgun either. And have you ever been in a situation where you need to make such a shot?
Not likely.
Now about maintenance. The Glock is just about the easiest gun in the world to take down to the piece part level with nothing more than a simple straight punch that you can make out of a coat hanger. Glocks are almost indestructable.
I've put a lot of rounds through my Glocks and they run today just as they did when they were brand new.
Not likely.
Now about maintenance. The Glock is just about the easiest gun in the world to take down to the piece part level with nothing more than a simple straight punch that you can make out of a coat hanger. Glocks are almost indestructable.
I've put a lot of rounds through my Glocks and they run today just as they did when they were brand new.
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762 Posts
I traded a 21c for a kimber goldmatch. I love to shoot the goldmatch. after the first 100 rounds it has been 100% reliable. Make sure you check out the kimber forum for more info on it. The glock did nothing but shoot where I pointed it everytime. both are great guns but the 1911 usually needs some break in time, this is not true of the glock. good luck!
Which do you shoot better? You may want to find a Range that offers rentals and see, or borrow one from a friend. You may find that the grip of the Glock is too short, or too fat... Definately, not everyone fit's the same.
In my case, I can shoot the Ultra much better than a Glock 27, although I have gotten better more recently with the "Safe Action" style triggers. Still, it really depends on the individual.
Personally, I don't think I would carry a short catridge style in a 1911. For most, the 40, or the 9x19 works fine, but knowing that the action of a 1911 works much more reliably with a longer cartridge length like the 45, 10mm, or 38 Super, I would gravitate that direction, YMMV.
When deciding on a particular gun for CCW, you should also factor in whether or not you are prepared to adjust your dress to aid in concealing your choice, and how you plan to carry it.
I find the Glock grips too thick for me, and especially, when IWB is the preferred mode, although some rig's do work better than others. Again, it will all come down to personal preferrence.
Good Luck.
I would also go with the Glock. Its a very accurate gun. I have 2 Glocks I use to have a Kimber but shoot the Glocks much better..
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Good Luck with whatever you choose.
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shooter.batcave.net
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shooter.batcave.net
I havent fired a Glock 357 but i have fired a Glock that was 9mm and a 40. They felt worse to shoot than my Kel-tec P11 even though my P11 had a heavier trigger pull it was smoother and easier to shoot than the Glocks. As for the Kimber Ultra Carry .. I havn't shot one of those either but I have shot a Kimber Ultra CDP in 45 and that was almost as nice as shooting a BHP Practical in 9mm, with a shorter trigger reset than the BHP the CDP shot really well and went to my POA with great speed. I have shot a couple other Kimber guns and I like them better than the Glocks I have shot. My next purchase after completing my AK will be a 1911 most likely a Kimber(and if I can justify the cost to my wife a Ultra CDP)
**wipes slobber off the keyboard**
Seth
**wipes slobber off the keyboard**
Seth
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1,399 Posts
<><> I think what the inspector said is true. There is not a one gun fits all. Shoot as many in different calibers as you think you might be interested in. You also should take into consideration your options for carry, IWB,OWB,pocket,fanny pack,etc. What works for one may not work for another.
Raspy
[This message has been edited by raspy (edited 08-17-2001).]
Raspy
[This message has been edited by raspy (edited 08-17-2001).]
Jamamatic,
I am not sure about the Ultra Carry, but I just purchased a Kimber Compact Covert and it is a great shooting gun. 3.5# trigger out of the box and a beautiful weapon. Also, I shot a friend's Glock 32 last week and I am currently looking at buying either the Glock in .40 S&W or .357 Sig. If possible, shoot both the Kimber and the Glock and buy what feels best. You can always buy the other later. Good Luck!
I am not sure about the Ultra Carry, but I just purchased a Kimber Compact Covert and it is a great shooting gun. 3.5# trigger out of the box and a beautiful weapon. Also, I shot a friend's Glock 32 last week and I am currently looking at buying either the Glock in .40 S&W or .357 Sig. If possible, shoot both the Kimber and the Glock and buy what feels best. You can always buy the other later. Good Luck!
Two totally different philosophies are in play here - but there is a right choice for each individual - and in most cases that right choice will be a 1911. My position is well known by most here, but since I don't see it being well represented just yet - here goes.
The Glock's advantages are: Simplicity - the essence of a box magazine fed revolver. Point and pull the trigger. Any dummy can run this thing. Cheap to buy - stampings and plastic. Low maintenance finish - ugly, but functional. Simpler for a neophyte to grasp and use, at least up to a moderate skill level - after which the action design functionally puts a limit on the user.
Downside: Complete Reliability? An Urban Myth. Read the Maintenance/Repair threads on Glocktalk, etc - still made by human beings, darn it! Much more subject to "limpwristing". Parts breakage and recalls/"updates" not at all uncommon. (Check the serial number lists to see if your gun falls in an "update" range.) Fat guns - and fat magazines for concealment. It and it's parts are imported - and can be kept out at any time by Executive Order/BATF ruling.
1911s - Upside: Easiest trigger mechanism in the world to shoot rapidly and accurately - proven in competition and combat. Slim, easy to conceal profile NO double stack gun comes close to. (Mags too.) Unexcelled for combat accuracy, and completely reliable when properly attended to by someone who has taken the time to learn his gun. Customizable to suit YOU, unlimited fit and feature options.
Downside: Few, but important to understand. You are carrying a cocked and ready pistol - dolts, dilletantes and idiots need not apply. Safe for any responsible person of moderate intelligence with a little study and practice. It is best to be introduced to the gun by someone who is already skilled in it's use and can "show you the moves" accurately.
Currently, most manufacturer's 1911s are mistakenly clearanced "Match" tight in slide/frame fit, and MIM parts can be a dice game every time you pick the gun up. Will the safety, barrel bushing or firing pin stop last 100,000 rounds - or break when I need it next week? No way to tell. So replace all MIM parts in critical, load bearing areas. This adds to the expense, particularly with a Kimber. I agree with the prior statement that a 1911 should shoot a longer cartridge - and I would therefore suggest that a .45ACP Colt Defender be added to your CCW "possibles" list. Eight shots of .45 with a backup magazine should solve any reasonable problem. The Series 80 Firing Pin Safety is a comfort to some of us who carry the gun concealed up against parts of our anatomy. (Kimber and Springfield are updating their guns, finally, as well.)
Ultimately, I would strongly advise you to pick one action type and work exclusively with it - if you really do care about being skillful with your handgun for defense. It is wise to know how to shoot whatever comes to hand - but muscle memory is a powerful thing to have on your side. It is alright for a hobbyist to "dabble" in different guns - a warrior needs to focus.
Judge on the basis of your dedication and interest in really becoming good and "one with your weapon". To a dedicated user - the 1911 sings. To "non-dedicated personnel" the Glock concept has some merit.
Either way - Best Wishes to you! Warmly, Col. Colt
"Beware of Counterfeits and Patent Infringements"
The Glock's advantages are: Simplicity - the essence of a box magazine fed revolver. Point and pull the trigger. Any dummy can run this thing. Cheap to buy - stampings and plastic. Low maintenance finish - ugly, but functional. Simpler for a neophyte to grasp and use, at least up to a moderate skill level - after which the action design functionally puts a limit on the user.
Downside: Complete Reliability? An Urban Myth. Read the Maintenance/Repair threads on Glocktalk, etc - still made by human beings, darn it! Much more subject to "limpwristing". Parts breakage and recalls/"updates" not at all uncommon. (Check the serial number lists to see if your gun falls in an "update" range.) Fat guns - and fat magazines for concealment. It and it's parts are imported - and can be kept out at any time by Executive Order/BATF ruling.
1911s - Upside: Easiest trigger mechanism in the world to shoot rapidly and accurately - proven in competition and combat. Slim, easy to conceal profile NO double stack gun comes close to. (Mags too.) Unexcelled for combat accuracy, and completely reliable when properly attended to by someone who has taken the time to learn his gun. Customizable to suit YOU, unlimited fit and feature options.
Downside: Few, but important to understand. You are carrying a cocked and ready pistol - dolts, dilletantes and idiots need not apply. Safe for any responsible person of moderate intelligence with a little study and practice. It is best to be introduced to the gun by someone who is already skilled in it's use and can "show you the moves" accurately.
Currently, most manufacturer's 1911s are mistakenly clearanced "Match" tight in slide/frame fit, and MIM parts can be a dice game every time you pick the gun up. Will the safety, barrel bushing or firing pin stop last 100,000 rounds - or break when I need it next week? No way to tell. So replace all MIM parts in critical, load bearing areas. This adds to the expense, particularly with a Kimber. I agree with the prior statement that a 1911 should shoot a longer cartridge - and I would therefore suggest that a .45ACP Colt Defender be added to your CCW "possibles" list. Eight shots of .45 with a backup magazine should solve any reasonable problem. The Series 80 Firing Pin Safety is a comfort to some of us who carry the gun concealed up against parts of our anatomy. (Kimber and Springfield are updating their guns, finally, as well.)
Ultimately, I would strongly advise you to pick one action type and work exclusively with it - if you really do care about being skillful with your handgun for defense. It is wise to know how to shoot whatever comes to hand - but muscle memory is a powerful thing to have on your side. It is alright for a hobbyist to "dabble" in different guns - a warrior needs to focus.
Judge on the basis of your dedication and interest in really becoming good and "one with your weapon". To a dedicated user - the 1911 sings. To "non-dedicated personnel" the Glock concept has some merit.
Either way - Best Wishes to you! Warmly, Col. Colt
"Beware of Counterfeits and Patent Infringements"
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912 Posts
Thanks for the headzup regarding the recalls, er "updates". I'm going over there to check and see if my serial number range is affected. By the way, that was a neat little rant.
If it isn't a Colt, it's just a copy.... Right?
If it isn't a Colt, it's just a copy.... Right?
Glocks are FAT and klunky. The trigger guard is as large as some compact semi-autos.
Glock trigger is mushy, squishy.
I like the ultra compacts in a 1911 for carry. It's possible to carry a full-size or even a "compact" gun concealed. But it's MUCH easier to carry an ultra compact.
The down side with the ultra compact is capacity. Springfield makes an ultra compact in high capacity (10 rd), The ParaOrd 10-45 is ultra compact and 10 rd too.
I have a ParaOrd. It's a fine gun for me. My other conceal carry guns are a Smith Mod. 60 in .357 and a Makarov. Full size 1911 for field carry.
357 SIG is an "odd" caliber. The ammo NEVER goes on sale and is expensive. You'd be better served with a 45 ACP, 40 S&W, or 9mm Parabellum/Luger -- in that order.
In a revolver, 357 mag is the only way to go.
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What part of "shall not be infringed" needs 'splainin' ???
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PowderBurns Black Powder / Muzzle Loader Forum
Glock trigger is mushy, squishy.
I like the ultra compacts in a 1911 for carry. It's possible to carry a full-size or even a "compact" gun concealed. But it's MUCH easier to carry an ultra compact.
The down side with the ultra compact is capacity. Springfield makes an ultra compact in high capacity (10 rd), The ParaOrd 10-45 is ultra compact and 10 rd too.
I have a ParaOrd. It's a fine gun for me. My other conceal carry guns are a Smith Mod. 60 in .357 and a Makarov. Full size 1911 for field carry.
357 SIG is an "odd" caliber. The ammo NEVER goes on sale and is expensive. You'd be better served with a 45 ACP, 40 S&W, or 9mm Parabellum/Luger -- in that order.
In a revolver, 357 mag is the only way to go.
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What part of "shall not be infringed" needs 'splainin' ???
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PowderBurns Black Powder / Muzzle Loader Forum
You ask between a 1911 and a glock on 1911forum?
What do you think you're going to hear? Ask the same question on glocktalk.com and see what the answer is.
The answer is they are both terrific guns, each with some PERCEIVED advantages and disadvantages, based on the bias of the person expressing their opinion.
My 2 cents, I have a beautiful Baer Premier II which I shoot very well. I think it's a fabulous gun. I carry a glock 19, and feel it's more than sufficent for CCW. Why the G19? I practice more with it (9mm Wolf ammo is dirt cheap), it's lighter, and I have 33 rounds with a 15 round mag and a 17 round spare... I've had zero malfunctions, and have over 8k rounds through it.
Either is great, don't be fooled into thinking one is "better" than the other...
Get both! Why can't you enjoy blondes and brunettes?
YMMV
Francis
What do you think you're going to hear? Ask the same question on glocktalk.com and see what the answer is.
The answer is they are both terrific guns, each with some PERCEIVED advantages and disadvantages, based on the bias of the person expressing their opinion.
My 2 cents, I have a beautiful Baer Premier II which I shoot very well. I think it's a fabulous gun. I carry a glock 19, and feel it's more than sufficent for CCW. Why the G19? I practice more with it (9mm Wolf ammo is dirt cheap), it's lighter, and I have 33 rounds with a 15 round mag and a 17 round spare... I've had zero malfunctions, and have over 8k rounds through it.
Either is great, don't be fooled into thinking one is "better" than the other...
Get both! Why can't you enjoy blondes and brunettes?
YMMV
Francis
I recently purchased a Glock 30 and a Kimber Ultra Carry for a CCW. Now the Glock 30 is sold because of the clunky trigger. The UC remains, yet this one is more difficult to field strip due to the captured spring assembly. Once you figure it out though, takedown is easy to handle.
As stated, it does take a tad more presence of mind to be a responsible 1911 owner (especially in the subcompact models), but this extra effort is worth it because you are carrying the weapon with the highest first shot hit potential; once you are properly rehearsed.
There are Ultra Carry pistols available now because they have been slow sellers. It is a cool pistol, great for that CCW permit. I suggest you acquire a Wilson's Officers magazine for it since the one in the box is not so hot. Also, stick with .45 ACP.
[This message has been edited by Drago (edited 08-28-2001).]
As stated, it does take a tad more presence of mind to be a responsible 1911 owner (especially in the subcompact models), but this extra effort is worth it because you are carrying the weapon with the highest first shot hit potential; once you are properly rehearsed.
There are Ultra Carry pistols available now because they have been slow sellers. It is a cool pistol, great for that CCW permit. I suggest you acquire a Wilson's Officers magazine for it since the one in the box is not so hot. Also, stick with .45 ACP.
[This message has been edited by Drago (edited 08-28-2001).]
I carry my Glock 19 in the winter when I can hide it under bulkier clothing. Believe it or not, a full size 1911 is easier to hide than a Glock 19!
Summertime I carry my Springfield V-10.
I do like the fact that I can carry 46 rounds with the Glock, vs. 19 with the Springfield.
Trust me, you CAN give a Glock a sweet trigger pull with the right parts. Not better than a 1911. Just different.
Buy both, when the wife moves out, you can carry one and sleep with the other!!
Mike
Summertime I carry my Springfield V-10.
I do like the fact that I can carry 46 rounds with the Glock, vs. 19 with the Springfield.
Trust me, you CAN give a Glock a sweet trigger pull with the right parts. Not better than a 1911. Just different.
Buy both, when the wife moves out, you can carry one and sleep with the other!!
Mike
Since I have both Glocks and 1911's I thought for what it's worth I'll throw my 2 cents in.. That was a good post Col. and I agree with most of what you said.
First the Glocks.. on the postive side,they are accurate, strong, easy to care for and maintain, easy to operate, and second only to 1911's in terms of avaiable accessories, and modifications. The overall winner of the Pa State IDPA Championship used a Glock 34. Cost is also a plus, the average Glock can be had at a much better price than the average 1911. On the down side.. I agree with the Col. on the reliablity issue. Glocks, as a general rule are extremely reliable, as long as your shooting the "right" ammo. Try some semi wadcutters or some other sharp shouldered bullet design and see just how quickly the Glock locks up. I have a G21, a G19 and just sold a G30 and all three of them acted this way with ammo they didn't like. Also, Glocks do not have fully supported chambers, not much of a problem with 9mm, but with .45 and especially the .40S&W, you must be careful when reloading or using "hot" factory ammo. I don't believe for one minute that Glocks are any more prone to KB'ing than any other pistol. But I have personally seen 2 G22's that KB'd during IPSC matches... in both cases the shooters were using hot reloads.. on the other hand I also know people who've fired thousands upons thousands of rounds in .40 cal Glocks without a hitch... just something you need to be aware of. Overall, the Glock is a reliable and accurate service pistol that will serve you well.
As for the 1911, I will again agree with Col. Colt in that the single action trigger is without a doubt the easiest to shoot both quickly and accurately. 1911's have more available options and accessories than any other pistol, anywhere. That means you can make the gun your own. The 1911 in the right hands is still, I believe the best platform for a combat or competiton pistol. As the Col. mentioned they are easier to conceal, at least as a general rule, and like Glock, maybe even more so than Glock, there are so many different models and configurations of 1911's, you'd be very hard pressed indeed to not find one that'd suit your needs. I also believe, just like the Col. mentioned, that a properly tuned 1911 is every bit as reliable as any other handgun, including revolvers. On the downside, the 1911 is not a beginners gun. If your not going to take time to learn it's "code of arms" then you should'nt use it as a carry or defensive pistol. That doesn't mean it's overly hard to operate, on the contray, I have a 14 year old daughter who handles the 1911 quite well. Just, it does take alittle dedication to "master" a 1911. And on the MIM parts, here's where the Col. and I see things a bit differently. I look at the MIM part breakage "scare" as another urban myth. The same general process that's used to MIM parts for pistols is used to make parts for jet engines. Are they as good as tool steel parts? of course not, but the MIM thing is way overblown in my humble opinion, probably started by people looking to make alittle extra cash changing out parts that really didn't need to be changed. I shoot an IDPA match just about every weekend, and between that and practice and whatever other shooting I get in.... I've seen exactly zero MIM parts break in the last 3 years.. I don't know, maybe your experience is different, but that's how I see it.
All that being said, its you who has to make the final decsion. As others have already mentioned, you should try to spend alittle time with both a Glock and a 1911 and see which one better suits your needs. Good luck with whichever you choose.. cheers !! mavrick
First the Glocks.. on the postive side,they are accurate, strong, easy to care for and maintain, easy to operate, and second only to 1911's in terms of avaiable accessories, and modifications. The overall winner of the Pa State IDPA Championship used a Glock 34. Cost is also a plus, the average Glock can be had at a much better price than the average 1911. On the down side.. I agree with the Col. on the reliablity issue. Glocks, as a general rule are extremely reliable, as long as your shooting the "right" ammo. Try some semi wadcutters or some other sharp shouldered bullet design and see just how quickly the Glock locks up. I have a G21, a G19 and just sold a G30 and all three of them acted this way with ammo they didn't like. Also, Glocks do not have fully supported chambers, not much of a problem with 9mm, but with .45 and especially the .40S&W, you must be careful when reloading or using "hot" factory ammo. I don't believe for one minute that Glocks are any more prone to KB'ing than any other pistol. But I have personally seen 2 G22's that KB'd during IPSC matches... in both cases the shooters were using hot reloads.. on the other hand I also know people who've fired thousands upons thousands of rounds in .40 cal Glocks without a hitch... just something you need to be aware of. Overall, the Glock is a reliable and accurate service pistol that will serve you well.
As for the 1911, I will again agree with Col. Colt in that the single action trigger is without a doubt the easiest to shoot both quickly and accurately. 1911's have more available options and accessories than any other pistol, anywhere. That means you can make the gun your own. The 1911 in the right hands is still, I believe the best platform for a combat or competiton pistol. As the Col. mentioned they are easier to conceal, at least as a general rule, and like Glock, maybe even more so than Glock, there are so many different models and configurations of 1911's, you'd be very hard pressed indeed to not find one that'd suit your needs. I also believe, just like the Col. mentioned, that a properly tuned 1911 is every bit as reliable as any other handgun, including revolvers. On the downside, the 1911 is not a beginners gun. If your not going to take time to learn it's "code of arms" then you should'nt use it as a carry or defensive pistol. That doesn't mean it's overly hard to operate, on the contray, I have a 14 year old daughter who handles the 1911 quite well. Just, it does take alittle dedication to "master" a 1911. And on the MIM parts, here's where the Col. and I see things a bit differently. I look at the MIM part breakage "scare" as another urban myth. The same general process that's used to MIM parts for pistols is used to make parts for jet engines. Are they as good as tool steel parts? of course not, but the MIM thing is way overblown in my humble opinion, probably started by people looking to make alittle extra cash changing out parts that really didn't need to be changed. I shoot an IDPA match just about every weekend, and between that and practice and whatever other shooting I get in.... I've seen exactly zero MIM parts break in the last 3 years.. I don't know, maybe your experience is different, but that's how I see it.
All that being said, its you who has to make the final decsion. As others have already mentioned, you should try to spend alittle time with both a Glock and a 1911 and see which one better suits your needs. Good luck with whichever you choose.. cheers !! mavrick
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