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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here's a pic of the safety lever and firing pin used in a Kimber Series II. The grip safety's trigger stop pushes up on the little lever, thus lifting the FP block. You can see the exposed block plunger as well as the hole in the frame where the lever goes, which is held in place by the sear pin alongside the sear and disconector. Aside from this, the only other dimensional change is the use of a thicker trigger stop pad on the grip safety. So in other words, you'll have to wait for the aftermarket to catch up before you can swap out the grip safety on a new Kimber. The FP block in the slide is installed through a hole in the top of the slide, covered up by the rear sight. While it is still fairly simple to remove the FP and extractor for cleaning, removing the block will require removing the rear sight so it isn't recommended.



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D. Kamm
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If the grip safety activated lever pushes up on the slide mounted plunger to release the firing pin, how does it retract in time to avoid being sheared off by the slide in recoil?
 

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DSK
with 3 posts about sights coming loose and such, just shoot a couple thousand, you will have the sight out of the way in no time to clean the plunger out.

geo ><>
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Originally posted by greg:
If the grip safety activated lever pushes up on the slide mounted plunger to release the firing pin, how does it retract in time to avoid being sheared off by the slide in recoil?
Same way as with a Colt Series 80. The slide doesn't get in the way, but the FP block plunger has to ride up the lever again, hence the little bevel at the front of the plunger.

George, that wasn't funny.




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D. Kamm
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Originally posted by dsk:
Same way as with a Colt Series 80. The slide doesn't get in the way, but the FP block plunger has to ride up the lever again, hence the little bevel at the front of the plunger.
You can also see the large channel in the slide where the lever rides. (The channel is present in all 1911's of course.)
 

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DSK,
Thanks for the explanation -- I can see what you mean when I look at the picture more closely.
It makes me wonder about the meaning of a "fail safe" design, however. Sure, it makes it virtually impossible to touch off a round if dropped muzzle first. Some claim it's virtually impossible anyway, without the safety, unless you drop the pistol off a tall building.
But regardless of which side of that debate one subscribes to, it seems to me that a failure of the mechanism results in a blocked firing pin because it takes a positive force to unblock the firing pin. It's not "fail safe" if you're really depending on the weapon to fire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
That's no different that a Series 80 Colt. On those, the two levers can wear to the point where they won't lift the FP plunger high enough to allow the FP to move forward. Time will only tell though which design is more durable, the Kimber/Swartz system or the Colt Series 80.

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D. Kamm
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No, but it's 'attorney-safe' if you're a mfr. Well, maybe not - nothing really ever is.

But it shows intent on the mfr's part (Kimber in this case) &, like the new Springfield mainspring lock, will give them more to work with in court. At least that's what their legal counsel told 'em. I wasn't there, didn't have to be to recognize a lawyer-inspired mod.

We all lose with s**t like this. A good design gets more complicated (more parts to break). The changes could actually _prevent_ a firearm from working when needed. But the mfr CYA'd & would say 'We were trying to make it safer.' Which old law enforcemetn guy said something like, 'Hell yes, this gun is dangerous, sonny. If it weren't I wouldn't be carryn' it.'

Clearly a victory for the anti-gun faction, cause a mfr has taken action in anticipation of having to defend themselves in court. Down this road lies 'smart' guns and other hi-tech solutions to an unreal problem.

I've spent the last 17 years making a living with micro-computers: NO WAY am I going to purchase or consider for one second a firearm with any microelectronics. The new Remington Etronix or whatever it's called: Nope, nada, nohow. Give me a Tinney trigger on a Mauser action. If the lock time is slower, it's still better than 1) having the 9V batt go away 2) The rifle TURNS OFF after 15 minutes. What, now a deer knows to show up on time? 3) The government turns off your E-lec-tronic firearm. Except on a range, on certain days of the week, not during civil unrest, etc. etc. etc.

Sorry for the rant. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

NetLar
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It's not just guns, NetLar, it's modern life. Look at all the safety crap they put on new lawnmowers, making it so you can't even cut your own grass anymore because they're afraid you might stick your hand underneath it while it's running (don't laugh, some people ARE that stupid). And how about cars, with all the electronic safety junk on them? One of my favorit movie scenes is Demolition Man, where Sylvester Stallone wrecks his futuristic car and suddenly becomes encased in "safety foam".

It's not the anti-gunners (except in CA). It's the fact that you can't deal with the public at all these days without being sued. I'm a manager at a store. Do you want to know how many times in a week I get threatened with a lawsuit from an unhappy customer, over something really small and stupid? Somebody buys a computer system and the price drops the following month, and there they are saying they're going to call the state attorney general and their lawyer over the money I screwed them out of. Sheesh!
 

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All this extra stuff on guns means one thing. More bait for long term prohibition of firearms. Let's face it, a person who does not point the gun in a safe direction. **A relatively easy thing to do which has been preached for at least 130 years by the NRA is not followed. So is it logical to assume that someone will remember to turn a key? People who don't check the chambers and magazines as required are going to look at that assinine chamber indicator? I don't think so. These modifications are just food for thought for more "gun zoning". Productions standards which do nothing in the long run and burden a manufacturer who is falling for this blatant deceit. This will serve to show that "guns cannot be made safe". Springfield should be ashamed of themselves for trying to convince people that ILS is so revolutionary. In my three decades of handling guns, it is downright assinine. Screw the ILS and Chamber Indicator. More bait to PROVE that guns are "UNSAFE".

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Originally posted by dsk:
It's not just guns, NetLar, it's modern life. Look at all the safety crap they put on new lawnmowers, making it so you can't even cut your own grass anymore because they're afraid you might stick your hand underneath it while it's running (don't laugh, some people ARE that stupid). And how about cars, with all the electronic safety junk on them? One of my favorit movie scenes is Demolition Man, where Sylvester Stallone wrecks his futuristic car and suddenly becomes encased in "safety foam".
DSK,
What if someone else puts their hands under the lawnmover with that grip safety on the lawnmover? I guess you need two people to commit an act of negligence? Much good intention with little common sense. So is liberalism and guns.

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