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Discussion Starter #1
Let met start by saying I own 2 Kimbers currently and hoave owned as many as 4. My current Kimbers are a Pro CDP and a Custom CDP. I was a bit skeptical when I purchased these guns. I had a hard time convincing myself they were worth the difference in price over my Springfield. I decided they would be and I have loved them from day one.
I have made a few modifications to both of them. New Firing pin stop, new main spring housing, new extractors, new extended tactical ejectors, new slide stops, new firing pins. All the little things to tweak the gun out. Well last Friday I decided to try a Wilson Combat CQB Full size. WOW is all I can say this gun is worth every penny more than I paid for my Kimbers. I have posted a review of my CQB on the Wilson side. I have already made arrangements to sell one my Kimbers and one of my H&Ks so I can aquire another one of these wonderful Guns. For the skeptics like me who doubt that there can be that much of a difference between the Wilson and the Kimber you gotta try it to believe. Good Shooting

Danger
 

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I hear you! I have a Colt 1911 series 70 with a bunch of accuracy work, a Kimber Custom Classic, and a full-sized Wilson CQB, my most recent purchase. No doubt about which is best (Wilson), but I paid for it too. I still love my Colt (shoots as good as the Wilson, but it took $500 of accurizing work and it is not as classy and does not have the warranty) and love my Kimber, since, for the price, it shoots pretty nice out of the box.

There is no doubt in my mind that my next gun will be another Wilson, but I still feel that Kimber gives a lot of gun for the money, and have had nothing but great service from them.

Tim
 

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452, I have to agree with you. I have had several Kimbers. Currently have a CST in .40. None of the Kimbers grouped larger than 1 1/2" @ 25 yds. My .40 goes under 1". A simple $50 trigger job is all that is needed. There are a lot of shooters that buy Wilsons and Les Baers just so they can say they have one. Everyone certainly has the right to spend their money however they wish. I prefer to use the difference in cost to buy more practice ammo.
 

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Dollar for dollar, the Kimber is still the best value in 1911s. I have shot several firearms form the likes of Baer, C&S, Kings, etc and own a Wilson; they all go bang.

Going bang is a primary requirement. All of the little things like the name on it are unimportant. Comfort like a beavertail, extended thumb safety are good; hi-viz sights are a must.

Put penis envy aside and bury the ego of I have to have a XYZ brand 1911; Kimbers work and are a good value. Get a Kimber have XYZ do a little work and you will have a XYZ tuned 1911.
 
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I own two 1911's....a Springfield that I put a bunch of money into, and a Kimber that outshoots the Springfield, out of the box. In somebody elses hands, they're might be an advantage to buying a Wilson, but my Kimber shoots better that I do. So why spend the $$$? I'm with Joe D, some folks just gotta say they own a Wilson.
 

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You got a new Wilson and you are feeling good now because you have now bought yourself entry into the Wilson club. That is great. Enjoy your new CQB.
 

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Danger,
So...uh...what's the point of this post being in the Kimber forum? Hhmmm...maybe you need someone to tell you good job on buying a Wilson? If so, "Good job."

I think I might find a Lexus forum and write about how much I enjoy my new Jaguar. I might even pat myself on the back for it.


good shootin', gunny

[This message has been edited by gunny (edited 10-31-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This was not a post about bragging nor about making myself feel better. This was a post that's the result of several posts made here by myself and others. I posted several times my doubts that anything could be better than
my Kimbers or at least better enough that I would feel justified in spending the money. I enjoyed my Kimbers greatly and feel that dollar for dollar they are one of the best guns on the market. But If you can afford the difference in cost or can justify it the Wilson is a better Gun.
 

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Danger - I don't own a Wilson, but I'd like to understand why the Wilson is a better gun than the Kimber. Please use objectivity - I'm not looking for opinions or subjective reasoning.
 

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Originally posted by hankhan:
Danger - I don't own a Wilson, but I'd like to understand why the Wilson is a better gun than the Kimber. Please use objectivity - I'm not looking for opinions or subjective reasoning.
Come on, this is an easy answer. They order parts with tighter specs. They have gun-smiths that fit the parts together for each gun. You pay for a smith to custom fit your gun.

Kimber uses specs not as tight so that they don't have to spend as much time fitting the guns.

Higher rate of production - lower labor costs = cheaper cost of gun.

The difference is going to be mainly in the accuracy because of the custom fitting. You would see about an average 50% smaller group size comparing a production Kimber to a custom Wilson. You will also get a lighter trigger pull and a polymer finish. Does shooting 1 - 1.5" groups at 25 yards vs. 2 - 3" groups mean its worth it to spend up to twice the money? That is up to you to decide!
 

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In my unasked-for-opinion, this is the trap that many fall into.

What are you doing with the gun? If you are shooting IDPA or for CCW, the Kimber will be fine. If you need a weapon, the Kimber is great. However, like the kings of old, if you want your sword to be decorated with diamonds and rubies, then buy the Wilson (or Vickers, Heinie, or Burns, et al). It won't make you a swordmaster, it won't make you any deadlier, it just shows your "status". It is still just a 1911 shooting a 45ACP round. If it is reasonably accurate and completely reliable it will do admirably as a self-defense weapon. The Kimber, assuming it runs out of the box, will do if the man holding it will do.

It is the man, not the gun. There are several folks on this and other forums who feel the need to collect and show pictures of their Hard Chromed Thunder Ranch Special with their sharkskin basketweave holsters(as an example). All that means crap! It is just showing off your wealth. Showing pictures of your weapon?? How pretentious! Are they any good with it? A good pistolero can carry the day with any reasonably accurate, powerful handgun. Even a Glock!! Even a revolver! You are not better armed with a custom pistol. You may feel special but you are not a better pistolero. The pistol is just the tool, the man is the weapon.

Rant mode off.

------------------
"Even the most normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats"
Mencken

[This message has been edited by BillD (edited 11-01-2001).]
 

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BillD said it! For me anyway, the gun is only as good as the person holding it. Ability is everything, I'm sure the average person may see a better 5 shot group at the range now and then due to the gun. In a defense situation though, I can't see there would be much of a difference at a conversational distance.

I'm glad the gun makes you happy, if I didn't have so many other expensive hobbies I would probably own a Wilson. In most cases, I buy the most expensive gun I can afford. Good shooting.
 
J

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I’ve always been of the opinion as the three above posts. But there is always someone with a $3,000.00 gun to argue with me. I love it when I beat them with my $550.00 Kimber. I hate it when someone beats me with anything.
 

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Gun Nut - I'm not looking for "They order parts with tighter specs. They have gun-smiths that fit the parts together for each gun. You pay for a smith to custom fit your gun."

I want to know what the specs are? Give me numbers, not opinions.

"The difference is going to be mainly in the accuracy because of the custom fitting. You would see about an average 50% smaller group size comparing a production Kimber to a custom Wilson. You will also get a lighter trigger pull and a polymer finish. Does shooting 1 - 1.5" groups at 25 yards vs. 2 - 3" groups"

Huh? I'd have to ask what is the sample of Kimbers vs. Wilson you are using for this rather amazing statement? How much lighter is the trigger? I'll say it again - these things are measureable, the only way I can determine which one is "better" is by comparing the data.

By the way, I've got a Gold Match Kimber that shoots groups at 25 yeards where the holes touch. It'll do it all day long...
 

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Originally posted by hankhan:
Gun Nut - I'm not looking for "They order parts with tighter specs. They have gun-smiths that fit the parts together for each gun. You pay for a smith to custom fit your gun."

I want to know what the specs are? Give me numbers, not opinions.
No one has the specs except Kimber, Wilson, and Jerico. However, everyone of those groups admits to the fact that Wilson gets tighter spec'ed frames and slides, and they pay more for them too. There was a specific article that was in one of the magazines a few years back that expressly talked about this fact, however I don't remember the mag or the date.


"The difference is going to be mainly in the accuracy because of the custom fitting. You would see about an average 50% smaller group size comparing a production Kimber to a custom Wilson. You will also get a lighter trigger pull and a polymer finish. Does shooting 1 - 1.5" groups at 25 yards vs. 2 - 3" groups"

Huh? I'd have to ask what is the sample of Kimbers vs. Wilson you are using for this rather amazing statement? How much lighter is the trigger? I'll say it again - these things are measureable, the only way I can determine which one is "better" is by comparing the data.
Go to any gun mag that compares Kimber production guns vs. Wilson and you will see that. Wilson triggers are guaranteed tuned to 3-3.5lb pull. Kimbers are a lb or two heavier. Most specifically, in the December 2000 issue of Gun Tests, a Pro CDP had a 4.2lb trigger and averaged groups about 1" larger than a Wilson CQB Compact with a 3.5 lb trigger weight.

By the way, I've got a Gold Match Kimber that shoots groups at 25 yeards where the holes touch. It'll do it all day long...
That is great! I am happy for you! You have got yourself one excellent pistol. But, Kimber doesn't guarantee that level of performance from their production guns. Most Wilsons have a 1" guarantee at 25 yards with specific ammo. If it doesn't do it, you send it back and they fit it until it does.

When you pay $1600 - $1900 for a Wilson that is where the money goes. And, in fact, you have to pay that much money to Kimber too if you want a guarantee of that level of performance (check the price of a Super Match lately?).

That you get that level of consistency with regard to accuracy and trigger pull on a Wilson is the whole reason for buying one. If it wasn't the truth, the company wouldn't be able to exist with the prices it charges. Anyone who knows anything about custom guns would consider a debate on these facts non-sensical.

The only debate here is whether or not people feel that level of consistency in accuracy, custom features, and customer support is worth the extra money.
 

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I realize most of you know this; but I'll point out to maybe some observers who are wondering. . .

About triggers, there's more to triggers than weight.

Truth be told, I bought a kimber that had the trigger weight at 3 pounds!! This may be an example of a consistency issue. However, the trigger had creep in it.

A quality trigger isn't necessarily light as it is crisp - any monkey can make the trigger lighter; but that exacerbates any crispness/creep problem.

Kimber triggers may/may not be good for a stock gun; but every one I tried in the store had an imperfect trigger - my Kimbers benefitted from having their trigger groups swapped out for fitted tool steel trigger groups at a smith. In the case of one, he made the trigger pull HEAVIER; but definitely superior.

I would imagine, like someone said, the difference with the Wilson is that you can EXPECT it to come out of the box with all these fitting guarantees.

While I don't shoot well enough (standing up) to consider the accuracy difference relevant, a great trigger DOES help with your shooting in all situations.


Battler.
 

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I get it now, the Wilson is better because the magazine said so!


This post is a lot like debating cars. Most of my net time is spent on car boards. Viper guys brag about what the magazines say, but can't drive so they get smoked by the better driver in the Vette....Same applies here, the $2k man might have the Wilson but might just get out shot by the $700 Kimber. Same stuff at the golf course, a lot of time the fat cat with the $500 driver can't hit the ball.

This has been a good post, bench racing is fun isn't it?
 

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Do I need to say OPINIONS are like......

For what you have to pay for a Wilson, it should shoot .50 groups and clean itself. That's just my opinion.

To each their own.
 
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