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I found this interesting for the tips he gave. However, just our of curiosity I measured a whole bunch of triggers to see what the weights would be. Every 1911 I have measured from my safe ( Wilson, Ed Browns, Rugers, Kimber). Only the Kimber scored over 4lbs the trigger that Mr Vickers insists on. The rest were in the 3.5lb range or below. What do your triggers on your 1911 measure?
 

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I think he is advising to have a near 4.5 lb trigger for a carry gun. His branded guns are mostly meant for close quarters defense type of stuff.
I don’t have a trigger under four pounds.
 

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My serious training experience on 1911, actually first serious training period, started with a Vickers class and was followed again by a Vickers class. Followed by other classes from guys from his former unit and other units. Naturally, my carry 1911 is between 4.0 and 4.5 lbs and my competition 1911 is between 2.5 and 3.0, as I use NRA drop weight set.
I view current trend of offering 3.5 or whereabouts 1911 triggers as a consequence of trigger control skills degradation in certain circles of pistol users, combined with a customer satisfaction oriented business models of certain gun makers. I often observe that shooters who can't stomach triggers on regular contemporary service guns also insist on having competition grade triggers on their carry 1911s, so it is not infrequently a continuum of a problem when people look for gear fixes to get the performance they want.
 

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I love that video! Thats what re-inspired my interest in 1911s. I think of it as a benchmark tutorial on the platform from a legend

Fast forward a couple of years, and I have a few 1911s, and both volumes of the Vickers Guide to 1911
 

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I keep hearing Vickers change his tune. Apparently now he likes 9mm and even Glocks.

I put 4.5 on my triggers for 1911s then I stop. I can enjoy less and 3 pounds is great, like a rifle, but I see no reason to. I have a cowboy gun set at 12 ounces, I love it and know exactly when it breaks. I carry it sometimes as a CCW when in the boonies. But I do not want any 12 ounce Guns laying around my house. Someone else might need it for defense. Until old age set in I had a very strong grip, triggers did not matter much back then. I shot double action revolvers back then, today it matters. Just figure out what works for your carry gun. That is what you need. Why does anybody need a class or video on that?
 

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...Just figure out what works for your carry gun. That is what you need. Why does anybody need a class or video on that?
Simple: many (if not most) people do not know what is the best carry gun for themselves. They may think they do, but what is easy to shoot at the range is not always the best carry gun. There are other factors involved such as capacity, weight, reliability & concealability. A person riding around all day in an AC'd SUV has a different comfort level than someone walking around all day in 100F heat. As well, humans tend to take the "easier & softer" path and look for simple solutions that are often wrong.
 
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Whenever I've had trigger work done on my guns I've asked for them to be right around 4 pounds. Even my competition guns I want to be viable for carry. The exception is a CZ tac sport that came with a trigger no more than 2 pounds. Wouldn't carry it. Also my cz da/sa may be a little lighter in single action.
 

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I usually run the trigger spring and GS spring slightly firm. But I like a light rolling break, that can easily be polished into the sear with the Ed Brown jig. And still be safe, with positive engagement.

My CZ Ts2 had a mouse click trigger. You can pull your shots too early with a trigger that light. But it's not insurmountable to overcome that.
 

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Most all my 1911’s are about 5lbs +/- .5 with the exception being my RO Elite Target that is a little under 3lbs.

The only other centerfire handgun under 4 lbs is my P-07. SA pull is a fuzz over 3lbs after doing a trigger job on it.

Rimfires; My Mark IV Target is 3.5 lbs and the Standard Model is 3 lbs.
 

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Releasing the slide is just one function - completely stopping the slide from cycling is another function. That is why it is called a slide "stop". It is a mechanical stop. Requiring more than 4 lbs. is more about how much control you have over your finger (or not) than the pull weight of the trigger. I shot USPSA for one summer with a 1.5 lb. trigger. Looking back I would never do that again even though I never had an unintentional discharge. In the real world there is absolutely no justifiable reason to run a trigger that light.
 

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I never follow a Guru religously, even the ones I like best have opinions that just don't work for me...

I havn't watched the vid, but if he is preaching a carry gun has to be over 4#'s I have to dissagree. Yes, my first few 1911's off the "rack" where over 4#s, but after that all the semi-custom and custom 1911s are lower by a bit...3.50 - 3.25#...

The notion presented above somewhare in this thread that people gravitate to low trigger weights because they have crappy skills is rather rediculous and obviously pulled out of the air...Oh, or maybe that is why Bill Wilson's carries with a 3# trigger - he has bad skills ;-).

Actually, a just as silly steryotype to assert would be to say the opposite, Folks who don't follow the basic rules of firearm safty need heavy triggers (i.e., keep your finger off the trigger untill ready to fire!)...Of course I wouldn't say that, but if I did it would have at least a bit more logic to it then that in the par. above.

Watch out for the trigger-weight police, they are provideing additional fodder to Lefty to make more gun laws (some unknowingly, but other.....? ;-)).
 

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...I havn't watched the vid, but if he is preaching a carry gun has to be over 4#'s I have to dissagree. Yes, my first few 1911's off the "rack" where over 4#s, but after that all the semi-custom and custom 1911s are lower by a bit...3.50 - 3.25#...

The notion presented above somewhare in this thread that people gravitate to low trigger weights because they have crappy skills is rather comical and obviously pulled out of the air (or something else starting with an "a" - lol)...Oh, or maybe that is why Bill Wilson's carries with a 3# trigger - he has bad skills ;-)....
The point is that people who have never had to use a handgun in an offensive/defensive situation will almost invariably "panic pull" the trigger if & when that occurs and as anyone with common sense can see, this can be extremely detrimental. It doesn't matter how many years a person has shot competition, trained, ran simulations, etc., as it is not the same.
 
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The point is that people who have never had to use a handgun in an offensive/defensive situation will almost invariably "panic pull" the trigger if & when that occurs and as anyone with common sense can see, this can be extremely detrimental. It doesn't matter how many years a person has shot competition, trained, ran simulations, etc., as it is not the same.
I'd agree someone just starting in pistols might be better served starting with a higher weight.

Beyond that the entire notion of panic pulls happing though with experience shooter who train a lot is qustionable. Why are you pointing the gun at a person if he isn't creating a threat to you? And even if he is, how do you have a panic pull if you keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire?

If someone is messing up that much I doubt a 4.5# trigger is going to save you.
 
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Do we have any statistically meaningful data which shows SB's are being shot in real life when they shouldn't specifically becase of a trigger with less than 4.5#'s was used?

I havn't seen anything on the civilian side like this (not saying it hasn't happen, but it must be rare and where is the statistical eveidence).

(Not talking about otherwise neglegent discharges where a true SB wasn't involved).
 

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I like Larry in general, and I haven't followed but of course hope he is in remission from his burden of Blood Cancer...Being on Chemo for 15 years on and off, these words apply in spades: IT SUCKS!...But thank God we have drugs to keep us alive for many years these days...

That said, I never follow a Guru religously, even the ones I like best have opinions that just don't work for me...

I havn't watched the vid, but if he is preaching a carry gun has to be over 4#'s I have to dissagree. Yes, my first few 1911's off the "rack" where over 4#s, but after that all the semi-custom and custom 1911s are lower by a bit...3.50 - 3.25#...

The notion presented above somewhare in this thread that people gravitate to low trigger weights because they have crappy skills is rather rediculous and obviously pulled out of the air...Oh, or maybe that is why Bill Wilson's carries with a 3# trigger - he has bad skills ;-).

Actually, a just as silly steryotype to assert would be to say the opposite, Folks who don't follow the basic rules of firearm safty need heavy triggers (i.e., keep your finger off the trigger untill ready to fire!)...Of course I wouldn't say that, but if I did it would have at least a bit more logic to it then that in the par. above.

Watch out for the trigger-weight police, they are provideing additional fodder to Lefty to make more gun laws (some unknowingly, but other.....? ;-)).
Some of us remember when some departments wanted police officers to be armed with DA only revolvers. The fear was that officers would 'cock' the handgun and then the light SA trigger would go off accidentally shooting the fellow that had already created a deadly force situation.

I only recall cocking my duty gun, a model 65 or 19, once and sticking it to the head of a suspect. It did not go off. A bizarre incident. Radio said three guys in a blue van had robbed a bar about five miles away. They were armed, one with a shotgun. My partner and I noticed a blue van with two guys in it, later we found the third, passed out in the back if the van. The strip joint where they were was a well known bad guy hangout and home to a 1% motorcycle gang who,lived just a few blocks away, a place where officers were always on alert.

We snuck up on the van, me on the driver's side, my partner on the passenger side. My partners saw his guy rolling a joint, from one of the many one ounce bags found in the van. My partner, now an obvious cop in uniform asked what he was doing, reply, rolling a joint.

I was now standing at the open driver's window and observed the driver reach under a jean jacket that was laying on the console. I cocked my gun and stuck it in his ear. I was 99% sure he was reaching for a gun to shoot the other officer. With the cocked gun in his ear, I said 'freeze'. The man knew exactly was was going on. I remember saying to him something like, "sir, I am afraid of you, if you pull anything out from that jacket other than four fingers and one thumb, I am going to shoot you in the head, do you understand. He froze and said, yes sir.

So he slowly pulled his hand back and I got him out of the van. His wrists were so big the cuffs would not close on him. So we cuffed the other two and put all three in the car, him in the middle.

Under that Jean jacket was only one thing, a Ruger Super Blackhawk in 44 mag.

You can second guess that all day long. But I was there. My take is it saved two lives, my partner, and the guy who already had his hand on the gun. I promise, I won't do it again, that was over 40 years ago. It just happened, no explanation, it just happened that way. When you are afraid you just do what you do.FWIW
 
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