Hi all:rofl: I'm new to this forum and reloading as well. My question is, is moly-coated lead bullets better for your pistol barrels than FMJ? I read on a thread somewhere that lead is actually better for your barrels especially the moly coated ones as they hardly leave any signs of lead fouling and since it's softer than FMJ, it "softer" on your barrels as well. Another question, I was told that, tumbling brass for cleaning is not necessary, just for cosmetics and besides the fact that it's easier to spot defects in the brass, other than that it's not necessary. Is that true? Thanks :rock:
Lead Bullets better than FMJ?
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I bet this item raises some controversy...my $.02...moly coated run cleaner however, what crud they do build up in the lands is a bear to remove. Over the long haul I believe that many benchrest guys have concluded that moly also causes unacceptable barrel wear.
Cases accumulate crud, including carbon residue and should always be cleaned before reloading.
/B
Cases accumulate crud, including carbon residue and should always be cleaned before reloading.
/B
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You're going to have to shoot 10's of thousands of rounds (lead, moly, jacketed) of anything before you need to start worrying about your barrel wearing out.
That said, lead is always softer than copper.
Clean cases are a must in a semi-auto handgun. They reduce the chances of failures to feed, and failures to extract because of the crud.
That said, lead is always softer than copper.
Clean cases are a must in a semi-auto handgun. They reduce the chances of failures to feed, and failures to extract because of the crud.
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Personally, I prefer tumblers. Dump in your cases and forget about them for a few hours. No mess, no fumes, no potential residue on the cases that may be unfriendly to your dies, and no hazardous materials to worry about.
I have shot about 60,000 rounds in the last four years and 90% of them have been Montana Gold. NO complaints other than they have priced me out of their market.:grumble:
I now shoot Precision bullets. They are, from what I can read, the original "black" moly/polymer coated bullets. Talk about a clean barrel. Clean it out with a 'bore-snake' and it's clean as can be.
They shoot and perform much like any jacketed bullet I've shot, I'll let you know about accuracy next year this time :rofl:
Anyway, the moly bullets are fitting the bill for me at this time.
FWIW
dj
OBTW, If you have a tumbler use it. If you don't, get one. Not only do the rounds look better, but even with today's carbide dies, it just makes you equipment last longer if the brass is clean.
dj
I now shoot Precision bullets. They are, from what I can read, the original "black" moly/polymer coated bullets. Talk about a clean barrel. Clean it out with a 'bore-snake' and it's clean as can be.
They shoot and perform much like any jacketed bullet I've shot, I'll let you know about accuracy next year this time :rofl:
Anyway, the moly bullets are fitting the bill for me at this time.
FWIW
dj
OBTW, If you have a tumbler use it. If you don't, get one. Not only do the rounds look better, but even with today's carbide dies, it just makes you equipment last longer if the brass is clean.
dj
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Personally I think the only reason to shoot FMJ is if you are shooting at an indoor range and the range insists on it. I have shot lead in all my pistols and revolvers as well as my .30-06 with great accuracy. Staying below 5 gr of unique in my 9MM keeps the leading away, actually 4.7 gr is my favourite load with 124 gr lead bullets and I get NO leading in any of my nines. Once I went to a hard lube I eliminated leading in my .45acp as well.
I cast my own which just adds to the enjoyment of my shooting sports.
Stay Safe
I cast my own which just adds to the enjoyment of my shooting sports.
Stay Safe
Would a gas check be necessary with the moly-lead bullets? As with cleaning the brass, the thread mentions that Richard Lee states in his book that cleaning is not necessary and there's a benefit of the carbon residue on the case as it acts as a lubricant, but you should clean the brass of any dirt and sand that might have gotten on the brass. Hey thanks to all that reply.:rock:
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Jacketed will always wear out a barrel sooner than lead.
If you wear out a barrel shooting lead out of it, you are a man among men.
Gas Checks really arent needed till you start getting over 35-40K PSI and 1300-1500 fps like in a 454 Casull or 357 Maximum. They mainly keep the bases from menting and distorting robbing you of accuracy. I only them in my 41 and 454.
Molly coated lead bullets are very cool. Stinky and still a little smokey to shoot though.
Wil Schuemann does not think much of Molly coated *jacketed* bullets. Thats ok, we all have opinions...
If you wear out a barrel shooting lead out of it, you are a man among men.
Gas Checks really arent needed till you start getting over 35-40K PSI and 1300-1500 fps like in a 454 Casull or 357 Maximum. They mainly keep the bases from menting and distorting robbing you of accuracy. I only them in my 41 and 454.
Molly coated lead bullets are very cool. Stinky and still a little smokey to shoot though.
Wil Schuemann does not think much of Molly coated *jacketed* bullets. Thats ok, we all have opinions...
+1... I only shoot my own cast bullets using my alloy mix in my .45s. My experience is that the barrel and pistol as a whole really comes in after about 5K rounds and doesn’t start to fall off to any significant degree until….. barrel, frame, slide, etc dependent and load dependent. I replaced a barrel in a Colt that had lost enough accuracy to warrant a change when the pistol was being tightened at about 250K rounds….. If I wasn’t having the pistol refreshed I wouldn’t have changed the barrel. Just my penny and a half…Tom Freeman said:
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moly coated
Just before the reloading forum was shut down, there was a post about moly coated bullets from Northeast Bullets. I had just gotten a bunch and was set to post some feedback about them. I've shot about 400-600 of them since then.
The bullets in queston were 200gr LSWC with a black powder coat of moly on them, not a uniform coating. The good news, they are inexpensive (~$42/1000 shipped) and the barrel is clean. The bad news is they are FILTHY to load. I have to wear rubber gloves. Same thing to load them into the mags, my thumbs are black after a match. I did not notice them to be smokier than non coated lead bullets.
I don't think there was a noticeable difference in how clean my barrel is compared to uncoated bullets. The next time I order from them, I will do without the coating. Otherwise, I think they are a bargain.
Goog
Just before the reloading forum was shut down, there was a post about moly coated bullets from Northeast Bullets. I had just gotten a bunch and was set to post some feedback about them. I've shot about 400-600 of them since then.
The bullets in queston were 200gr LSWC with a black powder coat of moly on them, not a uniform coating. The good news, they are inexpensive (~$42/1000 shipped) and the barrel is clean. The bad news is they are FILTHY to load. I have to wear rubber gloves. Same thing to load them into the mags, my thumbs are black after a match. I did not notice them to be smokier than non coated lead bullets.
I don't think there was a noticeable difference in how clean my barrel is compared to uncoated bullets. The next time I order from them, I will do without the coating. Otherwise, I think they are a bargain.
Goog
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For sure the lead bullets will give you longer barrel life than jacketed bullets. The question is how much you plan on shooting, because unless it's a heck of a lot, don't worry about it.
I don't think I've worn a barrel out in less than 75,000 rounds of jacketed bullets. Now I think major PF .38 Super or 9mm loads would wear a barrel faster, but unless you have an Open gun, it shouldn't matter.
The biggest factors concerning jacketed versus lead bullets should (IMHO) be range restrictions concerning lead bullets, cost, and smoke.
Brass doesn't HAVE to be tumbled, but a scratched sizing die will put you out of action until you get another one. I went for years before I ever scratched a carbide die, but then I scratched two .45 dies in as many days. I also like the extra inspection opportunity, and the look of the finished product with tumbled brass.
I don't think I've worn a barrel out in less than 75,000 rounds of jacketed bullets. Now I think major PF .38 Super or 9mm loads would wear a barrel faster, but unless you have an Open gun, it shouldn't matter.
The biggest factors concerning jacketed versus lead bullets should (IMHO) be range restrictions concerning lead bullets, cost, and smoke.
Brass doesn't HAVE to be tumbled, but a scratched sizing die will put you out of action until you get another one. I went for years before I ever scratched a carbide die, but then I scratched two .45 dies in as many days. I also like the extra inspection opportunity, and the look of the finished product with tumbled brass.
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Biggest problem with moly is that there are problems with corrosion under the moly in areas with high humidity.
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I have used and like the Bear Creek moly-coated bullets, particularly the 200 gr RNFP. A little Kroil on a patch, let it soak for a while, patch it out and the bore is clean.
I have ordered 1000 of the copperized bullets from National and will split them with a friend - we'll see how they work as far as leadingis concerned.
I have ordered 1000 of the copperized bullets from National and will split them with a friend - we'll see how they work as far as leadingis concerned.
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Other than range restrictions, are there any drawbacks to using lead bullets over FMJ?
Can you break in a new gun with lead bullets or only FMJ?
I've seen a lot of talk about 'leading'. How much of a problem is it really? I mean can you get rid of it during your normal cleaning? What extra or different step(s) must be taken if you're shooting lead instead of FMJ?
What would be an equivalent lead bullet to a WWB 230gr FMJ?
I see lots of abbreviations for different types of lead bullets, like LSWC (sp?) and others. Can someone list the common types and what they mean please?
What are the good brands of lead bullets and where do you guys get yours from?
Sorry for all the newb questions. I searched and only got two hits for posts with 'lead' in the title. I haven't started reloading yet, but will be in a couple of weeks, so I'm trying to do my research now.
Can you break in a new gun with lead bullets or only FMJ?
I've seen a lot of talk about 'leading'. How much of a problem is it really? I mean can you get rid of it during your normal cleaning? What extra or different step(s) must be taken if you're shooting lead instead of FMJ?
What would be an equivalent lead bullet to a WWB 230gr FMJ?
I see lots of abbreviations for different types of lead bullets, like LSWC (sp?) and others. Can someone list the common types and what they mean please?
What are the good brands of lead bullets and where do you guys get yours from?
Sorry for all the newb questions. I searched and only got two hits for posts with 'lead' in the title. I haven't started reloading yet, but will be in a couple of weeks, so I'm trying to do my research now.
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T.S.,
I'll try to answer some of your questions.
1. IMHO, there are absolutely no drawbacks to using lead bullets over jacketed bullets. In fact, there are several plusses - more accurate, less wear on barrel, and cheaper to purchase.
2. I always shoot 500 rounds of FMJ though a new barrel to "break it in" by smoothing the sharp edges. Don't really know if this is necessary or only an illusion, but it seems to me that doing this will make the barrel less likely to "shave" lead when I start shooting lead bullets. Don't have that many new barrels to break in to do a true comparitive test.
3. IME, barrel leading is not much of a problem, if your barrel has been properly "broken in" and conditioned. By conditioned I mean consistently using something like FP-10 to clean your barrel so that the lead really never "adheres" to the inside of the barrel. I always get barrel leading, but it's not a problem to remove. There is one mechanical method and two chemical methods I'm aware of that do an excellent job. The mechanical method is simply wrapping some strands of copper chore boy around an undersize brush and "scrubbing" the lead out. This is best done in a "dry" barrel before any liquid solvents are added. One chemical method is using a Foul Out electronic unit, but, even though I own one, I hardly ever have to use it. The other chemical method is not as well accepted by everyone, so I won't go into any details, other than to say it involves hydrogen peroxide and vinegar.
4. Any 230gr LRN (lead, round nose) bullet would be an equivalent to a WWB 230gr FMJ.
5. LSWC=lead, semi-wadcutter; LRN (see above); LFP=lead, flat point; RNFP=round nose, flat point. I'm sure there's more, but these are all the come to mind right now.
6. IMO, the "best" brand of 45acp lead bullet is the one you can buy cheapest. What I"m saying is, they're all good, and any differences will be very slight.
Good luck in your reloading endeavors, and don't be worried about using lead bullets.
Rod.
I'll try to answer some of your questions.
1. IMHO, there are absolutely no drawbacks to using lead bullets over jacketed bullets. In fact, there are several plusses - more accurate, less wear on barrel, and cheaper to purchase.
2. I always shoot 500 rounds of FMJ though a new barrel to "break it in" by smoothing the sharp edges. Don't really know if this is necessary or only an illusion, but it seems to me that doing this will make the barrel less likely to "shave" lead when I start shooting lead bullets. Don't have that many new barrels to break in to do a true comparitive test.
3. IME, barrel leading is not much of a problem, if your barrel has been properly "broken in" and conditioned. By conditioned I mean consistently using something like FP-10 to clean your barrel so that the lead really never "adheres" to the inside of the barrel. I always get barrel leading, but it's not a problem to remove. There is one mechanical method and two chemical methods I'm aware of that do an excellent job. The mechanical method is simply wrapping some strands of copper chore boy around an undersize brush and "scrubbing" the lead out. This is best done in a "dry" barrel before any liquid solvents are added. One chemical method is using a Foul Out electronic unit, but, even though I own one, I hardly ever have to use it. The other chemical method is not as well accepted by everyone, so I won't go into any details, other than to say it involves hydrogen peroxide and vinegar.
4. Any 230gr LRN (lead, round nose) bullet would be an equivalent to a WWB 230gr FMJ.
5. LSWC=lead, semi-wadcutter; LRN (see above); LFP=lead, flat point; RNFP=round nose, flat point. I'm sure there's more, but these are all the come to mind right now.
6. IMO, the "best" brand of 45acp lead bullet is the one you can buy cheapest. What I"m saying is, they're all good, and any differences will be very slight.
Good luck in your reloading endeavors, and don't be worried about using lead bullets.
Rod.
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Thanks for the info RetiredRod.
Does anyone use lead bullets as their 'carry' ammo? Would the SWC type bullets be similar to a hollow point when it strikes a target? Or are lead bullets best left to range/practice/training?
Sounds like I'll definitely be doing some lead reloading.
Is there not some type of bore brush specifically made for removing lead from a barrel? Or does everyone use the method you mentioned of using the undersized brush and chore boy (whatever that is)?
How undersized would you need for a .45?
Does anyone use lead bullets as their 'carry' ammo? Would the SWC type bullets be similar to a hollow point when it strikes a target? Or are lead bullets best left to range/practice/training?
Sounds like I'll definitely be doing some lead reloading.
Is there not some type of bore brush specifically made for removing lead from a barrel? Or does everyone use the method you mentioned of using the undersized brush and chore boy (whatever that is)?
How undersized would you need for a .45?
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+1 Bear Creek = Gerade das Richtige! (the very thing!)Calif. Hunter said:
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