1911Forum banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
550 Posts
Discussion Starter #1


Test Gun: Smith and Wesson model 65. Barrel length: 3 inches.
Ammunition: Liberty’s .357 Magnum 50gr Civil Defense.
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel. Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: fps 1796fps
Gel Temperature 70 degrees.

This is an interesting round that consists of 50gr all copper bullet with a large hollow point. The idea was the bullet would fragment early upon entering the target. The hollow part of the bullet breaks off into smaller pieces and radiates away from the main path of the bullet core which would then driver deeper in the target.

Using the S&W M65 I got an average velocity of 1796fps with a high of 1860 and a low of 1746fps. Liberty list this load’s velocity of this round at 2100fps but doesn’t list a barrel length. The point of impact was about 3 inches low at 10 yards.


Five round offhand at 10 yards. Point of aim was at #3

The first round in the bare gel exited the top of the block at the 7.5 inches mark. No velocity was recorded and the bullet core was not recovered. The fragmenting portion of the bullet started at about the 2.5-inch mark and stopped at about the 3.5-inch mark. The weight of the fragments was 10.1 grains. The second round’s velocity was 1786fps and the core penetrated to 16 inches. The fragmentation was 2 to 4 inches deep and the weight of the recovered fragments was 6.3 grains. The recovered weight of the core was 36.2 grains.





In the covered gel, the first round had a velocity of 1716fps and the core penetrated to 12.5 inches and weighed 36.2 grains. The bullet fragments 2.5 to 3 inches and had a recovered weight of 16.8 grains. The second round’s velocity was 1718fps and the bullet’s core penetrated to 11 inches and weighed in at 36.3 grains. The fragments went from 2 to 2.5 inches and weighed 10.5 grains.



The fragments from all loads spread from 2 to 3 inches from the main bullet path.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,029 Posts
Thanks again for doing this...

Interesting load...bet that would really hurt...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,873 Posts
Sounds pretty nasty!

But I am a bit skeptical. Maybe I am wrong. But it sounds to me like a fifty grain handgun projectile that is trying to be a load of buckshot. Probably just me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,292 Posts
Liberty, Magsafe and Glaser are the only really modern, efficient defensive loads out there. All the heavy bullet, "Old Tech", "FBI parameter" loads are LESS. These light bullet loads all work on "neurogenic shock" - the huge temporary cavity touches thousands of nerve endings/receptors, ALL of which fire at once to the brain - shutting off the target. Read about it in the Third Edition of Marshall and Sanow's "Stopping Power". This is why the .357 Magnum 125gr. Federal at 1450 fps (out of a 4") was such a Death Ray in law enforcement work, with a 96% one shot stop percentage.

Why? That Neurogenic Shock - and Lots of energy - ALL Dumped INSIDE the target in the first six inches of the chest. Usually 500 Foot Pounds or more. Explosive results, lots of damage and, thanks to velocity, goes right through body armor.

You are looking at the Best Way to stop human antagonists. But it's not "FBI approved", (lawyers and accountants) so it must be wrong! CC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,217 Posts
Liberty, Magsafe and Glaser are the only really modern, efficient defensive loads out there. All the heavy bullet, "Old Tech", "FBI parameter" loads are LESS. These light bullet loads all work on "neurogenic shock" - the huge temporary cavity touches thousands of nerve endings/receptors, ALL of which fire at once to the brain - shutting off the target. Read about it in the Third Edition of Marshall and Sanow's "Stopping Power". This is why the .357 Magnum 125gr. Federal at 1450 fps (out of a 4") was such a Death Ray in law enforcement work, with a 96% one shot stop percentage.

Why? That Neurogenic Shock - and Lots of energy - ALL Dumped INSIDE the target in the first six inches of the chest. Usually 500 Foot Pounds or more. Explosive results, lots of damage and, thanks to velocity, goes right through body armor.

You are looking at the Best Way to stop human antagonists. But it's not "FBI approved", (lawyers and accountants) so it must be wrong! CC
Do both. .450 SMC or .460 Roland literally fulfill any and all tactics on the matter at hand
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
368 Posts
Liberty, Magsafe and Glaser are the only really modern, efficient defensive loads out there. All the heavy bullet, "Old Tech", "FBI parameter" loads are LESS. These light bullet loads all work on "neurogenic shock" - the huge temporary cavity touches thousands of nerve endings/receptors, ALL of which fire at once to the brain - shutting off the target. Read about it in the Third Edition of Marshall and Sanow's "Stopping Power". This is why the .357 Magnum 125gr. Federal at 1450 fps (out of a 4") was such a Death Ray in law enforcement work, with a 96% one shot stop percentage.

Why? That Neurogenic Shock - and Lots of energy - ALL Dumped INSIDE the target in the first six inches of the chest. Usually 500 Foot Pounds or more. Explosive results, lots of damage and, thanks to velocity, goes right through body armor.

You are looking at the Best Way to stop human antagonists. But it's not "FBI approved", (lawyers and accountants) so it must be wrong! CC

.306 or 30-06 with 150 grain soft point to the head would take that title. 30-30 with 150 grain Winchester super x jacketed hollowpoint to the chest is number 2. 50 BMG with jacketed hollow points would take take overall best effort...

the 125 grain load was enjoyed for expansion as short range, and long range accuracy.

no 50 grain bullet is good for the gun. MOST everyone feels nothing under 140 grains at magnum velocity is good for a .357 period.

ill take my 158 grain bullets. they work. they work. and they work at long range. Nothing like a 158 grain sjhp through your chest or guts at 50 yards to say hello
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22,873 Posts
Yes, I guess that this is why.

Liberty, Magsafe and Glaser are the only really modern, efficient defensive loads out there. All the heavy bullet, "Old Tech", "FBI parameter" loads are LESS. These light bullet loads all work on "neurogenic shock" - the huge temporary cavity touches thousands of nerve endings/receptors, ALL of which fire at once to the brain - shutting off the target. Read about it in the Third Edition of Marshall and Sanow's "Stopping Power". This is why the .357 Magnum 125gr. Federal at 1450 fps (out of a 4") was such a Death Ray in law enforcement work, with a 96% one shot stop percentage.

Why? That Neurogenic Shock - and Lots of energy - ALL Dumped INSIDE the target in the first six inches of the chest. Usually 500 Foot Pounds or more. Explosive results, lots of damage and, thanks to velocity, goes right through body armor.

You are looking at the Best Way to stop human antagonists. But it's not "FBI approved", (lawyers and accountants) so it must be wrong! CC
All of the LEO organizations are using them.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top