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Definitely 40 -- except...

Nobody makes a 10 round 40 or 10mm mag for a single stack. Dawson may be producing a 10 round single stack .40/10mm mag but I'm not sure it's definite and it will likely be several months at minumum.

Most stages don't require that you have a 10 round mag but it is a definite help to have one or two 10 rounders in your bag. There will be times when you need them.

The biggest drawback to the .45 is used brass is not as plentyful as it used to be and it's getting expensive. .40 brass is almost a give away these days. Anybody with even loose LEO connnections can often get it for free and even if you have to buy it, it's only $25-$30 /1000.

I have both calibers and I prefer the 40. Remember though, the hottest setup for Limited 10 is a regular Limited gun but only loading 10 rounds. Reloads are definitely faster with a big, double stack opening.
 

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Alvin,

Hope one of those is for score only.

One comment though, you've proved my long standing assertion that hi-caps aren't the advantage many claim them to be. Unless you've already trashed the stage results by misses, gun jam, or a brain fart - it should be a very rare occurance to do a standing reload even with a single stack. If I have two steps of movement, I can complete a reload withoug any time consquence. Most of the high-A and above shooters can complete it in one step. There are very, very few stages where there are less that two steps between shooting positions.
 

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Originally posted by Pampers:
What we are seeing here is the encroachment of the "gamers" on Limited 10.
That's because IT'S A GAME.

Why don't you go play IDPA? There's lots of people who think like you there. BTW, That's a game too, but the like to prented that it isn't.


[This message has been edited by kbear38S (edited 06-08-2001).]
 

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Originally posted by PK:
I'm not so sure the "gamers" are the problem in this sport. I think the problem may be the "whiners".
...what he said...


Personally, I'm glad IDPA has come along. It's purged most of the whining from the IPSC. Apparently there are still a few of them left.

I always figured most of the whiners are just LOSERS trying to blame their failing on their equipment anyway, but I get the s#$#s of hearing it.

IDPA - the game for people who think equipment matters.

(funny how a $4000 Wilson single stack isn't considered gamey though...)
 

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Originally posted by Pampers:
The whining that I heard was in last month's Front Sight...
You HEARD whining that was printed in a magazine? One letter to the editor does not make for encroachment of gamers nor is it an indication that another equipment race is spawning. Just ain't so.

First the whining was can't win against high caps, now it's can't win against double stacks.

...lamenting the number of USPSA clubs that had folded in the last year. The author noted that the people who had left to form the IDPA, Single Stack Classic...
By far, the reason most clubs fold is because the handful of people who actually run the matches and do all the work get tired of it after a few years hang it up. I only know of one club in the mid-Atlantic region that had a problem attracting shooters and that was because the match director was a jerk and drove away regulars by stupid stages with lots of 'screw the shooter traps'. All the shooters are still around, but the club isn't.

...Equipment races have effectively killed IHMSA....
And you don't think prohibiting existing equipment from a division because a handful of people think a 10 round double stack is a huge advantage over a 10 round single stack isn't going to drive people away?

...There are open and unlimited classes for those who wish to push the limits....
No, there is Open Division and Limited Division. There is no such thing as unlimited, especially if you think it's something other than Open Division. BTW, shooters have a class, guns have a division.

...Check the results of any match lately and see the number of shooters who participate in Limited and Limited 10.....
What's your point?


...Oh, by the way, If you want to purchase my Wilson built Colt for $4,000.....
My apologies, I was incorrect about the price. A Wilson Supergrade single stack is only $3500. http://www.wilsoncombat.com/pistols/supergrade.asp



[This message has been edited by kbear38S (edited 06-08-2001).]
 

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Originally posted by Pampers:
My point about Limited and Limited 10 is that they are the future of the sport.
Nobody's arguing that. The only problem here is that you somehow got the idea that Limited 10 is an 8 round single stack division, which it's not and never was. The Divsion you're looking for is IDPA CSP. Go play with them, they love whiners, especially people who whine about the IPSC rules even though they don't understand them. Tell them about how all the IPSC gamers on the 199Forum were mean to you.

My comments regarding "gaming" in Limited 10 results from my observation of shooters seeking a competative edge in the class. Be it going from .45 to .40 to reduce recoil, or to wide body frames, albeit limited to 10 rounds, to facilitate loading, they're gaming.
And this after your rant about opening up sport to more people and you want to exclude a huge number of guns. Why? Anybody with hardware you think is better than yours shouldn't be allowed to play?

"Gaming" as defined as seeking a competative edge through attempting to "work" the rules rather than through improving shooting ability.
And complaining about people shooting completely legal equipment is called "Whining".


Look at Limited 10 rules. They are expressly designed to prevent gaming, as are the revolver rules.
The Limited 10 rules have noting to do with preventing "Gaming". That rule was implemented in response to high cap mag bans - PERIOD.

I'll repeat: I don't own a Wilson SuperComp. I own a Colt Government Model with a reliability package. NO trick parts. I'll gladly sell it for $4,000!


Except that wasn't the point, was it?

Finally, why are your shorts in such a knot?


My shorts in a knot?? You're the one who went of on your gaming rant.
 

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Originally posted by Pampers:
The result of their efforts has been Limited.
Limited has been around for what, 8? 10? years now?

Now then, attempting to "optimize" your competative advantages through maximizing the lattitude allowed WITHIN the rules IS gaming.
Actually, that's NOT gaming. Gaming is procedural and doesn't have anything to do with hardware. An example of gaming might be intentionally not engaging a target because the miss penalty has less of an impact on the hit factor than the time it would take to shoot it. Another example might be the competitor who notices that the stage procedures doesn't say shoot targets X, Y, Z from Port A ONLY and so engages those targets from some other, more advantageous shooting position.

The term gaming as applied to guns is strictly in the language domain of IDPA type whiners.

Tell me there Pampers, don't you think your $2000 Wilson is a little gamey compared to the with a $400 mil-spec 1911 some people are stuck with? Isn't that trigger job, match barrel, hand fitted slide/frame, just taking advantage of the rules for a competitive advantage? It's gaming according to your definition, or do you just apply that term to equipment you don't own?


[This message has been edited by kbear38S (edited 06-10-2001).]

[This message has been edited by kbear38S (edited 06-10-2001).]
 
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