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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted about this experience under the title new Kimber owner, but I don't think anyone saw it as a plea for information. So, I'll start a new thread. I have looked through many of the troubleshooting posts, but I didn't get a good understanding of what this may be caused from.

Brand new Stainless Pro Carry II 9mm. Gun was stripped and cleaned and then taken to the range.

First box of ammo run was Fiocchi FMJ. I had an issue on every round in the box. Issues were:

1. Hammer would be cocked but then no bang. When I racked the slide an empty shell ejected.

2. Gun jammed with empty still in the chamber and the new round pinned nose first into into the back of it.

3. Gun jammed with the empty shell sitting vertically and the next round trying to feed.

Number 1 especially confuses me. The round fired, the slide retracted enough to cock the hammer but then didn't eject the round and the next round in the magazine didn't get stripped enough to cause a jam. What causes that?

When I went through that box of Fiocchi, I started on a box of Blazer aluminum casing. 50 rounds no issues at all.

Then went to a mostly full box of Blazer Brass. 1 jam.

I understand the break in period, but that first box of Fiocchi has me confused.

Does this sound like just a bad box of ammo? Or is Fiocchi a known issue?

Does this sound like a magazine issue? An extractor tension issue?

Any input is greatly appreciated. I'm new to 1911s so, treat me gently.
 

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You say you stripped it, cleaned it, but you do not mention oiling it. If the impetus from the firing of a round does not cycle the slide, or only partially cycles the slide, it is either REALLY bad ammo (and I have . . not . . had problems with Fiocci like that) or you are WAY short on lubrication.

Speaking of lubrication, did you by chance use grease to lube the slide? Grease can and does cause problems in 1911s. Especially in Kimbers. That's why they give you a small container of FP-10. The stuff works quite well.
 

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It sounds like the Fiocchi ammo may have been under-powered for your gun. I have personally never liked that ammo for any of my guns. Others may have had different experience, but I view Fiocchi as junk ammo along with S&B and a few others.

On #1, it sounds like the slide moved far enough back with enough momentum to kick the hammer back, but not far enough to strip another round. In addition, it sounds like either your extractor slipped, or the slide failed to go far enough out of battery to hit the ejector. In the later case, then the extractor simple held the case in place against the bolt face and rechambered it on return to battery. This may have also held the next round in the mag down and prevented it from being stripped. There are a lot of "what if"s going on in that case, but it could all line up that way. There are too many variables to really tell exactly what happened, but I would guess I'm close.

On #2, it sounds like you had the extractor slip off the case rim and fail to eject the case. The slide picked up another round, but obviously the chamber was blocked by the previous case. Fiocchi has, in my opinion, questionable QAQC practices, so it could be that the rim thickness was not in tolerance and that could create the problem.

#3 is a classic stovepipe jam. Not enough inertia to properly eject the previous round, so it was captured on return to battery.

I would take a look at your extractor for burrs or other visible issues, and look at the chamber for any signs of roughness or tool marks. These could contribute to the problems you describe. The fact that your issues diminished significantly on changing ammo types tells me that your problems are mainly ammo-related. I would look for the obvious issues I described above, give the gun a GOOD cleaning, and then go back to the range with some good quality ammo. MagTech, Winchester White Box, Federal, PMC, Blazer Brass...these are all decent choices that are not overly expensive and should help you eliminate the gun as the problem. I would also take a few different magazines with me. Try them each out and see if one performs consistently better than another.

I think that with a little experimenting you will find that your main issue on the range report you give above was just a crappy choice of ammo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You say you stripped it, cleaned it, but you do not mention oiling it. If the impetus from the firing of a round does not cycle the slide, or only partially cycles the slide, it is either REALLY bad ammo (and I have . . not . . had problems with Fiocci like that) or you are WAY short on lubrication.

Speaking of lubrication, did you by chance use grease to lube the slide? Grease can and does cause problems in 1911s. Especially in Kimbers. That's why they give you a small container of FP-10. The stuff works quite well.

No grease. It was lubed. It was lubed with the same lube and in the same manner I lubed the Pro Carry HD II 45 ACP that has run flawlessy through 300 rounds. I never tried any Fiocchi through the 45 though. I just had a last box of Fiocchi 9mm lying there. I don't usually buy Fiocchi, but with the shortages I took what I could when I found it.

I did not use the lube sent by Kimber, I used G96 Gun Treatment which is what I've used for a couple years now and what caused no problems on the 45.

I've just never run into such a stark change from one box of ammo to another type. From 100% suck to 100% function.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It sounds like the Fiocchi ammo may have been under-powered for your gun. I have personally never liked that ammo for any of my guns. Others may have had different experience, but I view Fiocchi as junk ammo along with S&B and a few others.

On #1, it sounds like the slide moved far enough back with enough momentum to kick the hammer back, but not far enough to strip another round. In addition, it sounds like either your extractor slipped, or the slide failed to go far enough out of battery to hit the ejector. In the later case, then the extractor simple held the case in place against the bolt face and rechambered it on return to battery. This may have also held the next round in the mag down and prevented it from being stripped. There are a lot of "what if"s going on in that case, but it could all line up that way. There are too many variables to really tell exactly what happened, but I would guess I'm close.

On #2, it sounds like you had the extractor slip off the case rim and fail to eject the case. The slide picked up another round, but obviously the chamber was blocked by the previous case. Fiocchi has, in my opinion, questionable QAQC practices, so it could be that the rim thickness was not in tolerance and that could create the problem.

#3 is a classic stovepipe jam. Not enough inertia to properly eject the previous round, so it was captured on return to battery.

I would take a look at your extractor for burrs or other visible issues, and look at the chamber for any signs of roughness or tool marks. These could contribute to the problems you describe. The fact that your issues diminished significantly on changing ammo types tells me that your problems are mainly ammo-related. I would look for the obvious issues I described above, give the gun a GOOD cleaning, and then go back to the range with some good quality ammo. MagTech, Winchester White Box, Federal, PMC, Blazer Brass...these are all decent choices that are not overly expensive and should help you eliminate the gun as the problem. I would also take a few different magazines with me. Try them each out and see if one performs consistently better than another.

I think that with a little experimenting you will find that your main issue on the range report you give above was just a crappy choice of ammo.
Thanks. I have two Kimber mags inbound. Should be here tomorrow. I'm going back to the range Friday with Blazer and maybe some American Eagle to see how it does. If I have issues again, I'll move to the extractor. New to 1911s so I'll have to bone up a bit on that.

Appreciate the reply. What you say makes sense to me.
 

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I would avoid Blazer aluminum-case ammo for now. Aluminum does not have the natural lubricity of brass, and may not function as well. I would stick to brass case ammo for the moment until I was sure I had the issue identified. The American Eagle ammo is fine, if perhaps a little dirty. It is consistent though, and it always works in my guns. Blazer Brass is pretty good stuff. The comments regarding proper lubrication should also be heeded. I failed to mention lubrication earlier, but it is an important component of keeping your pistol running smoothly. Don't over do it though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I would avoid Blazer aluminum-case ammo for now. Aluminum does not have the natural lubricity of brass, and may not function as well. I would stick to brass case ammo for the moment until I was sure I had the issue identified. The American Eagle ammo is fine, if perhaps a little dirty. It is consistent though, and it always works in my guns. Blazer Brass is pretty good stuff. The comments regarding proper lubrication should also be heeded. I failed to mention lubrication earlier, but it is an important component of keeping your pistol running smoothly. Don't over do it though.
Appreciate the advice. I've had zero malfunctions with Blazer aluminum case ammo. That goes for any gun I've owned including the Pro Carry 45 and Pro Carry 9mm. Two Taurus 9mm ate it without ever having a hiccup. The PC HDII 45 ate it fine and this 9mm Pro Carry II ate it up. It was the only box I tried that had no jams. I was leery when I first tried it, but since it seems to work so well and have had no problems of any kind, I kind of look for it now. Usually comes with a good price.
 

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I would adjust the extractor tension since your issues point to that as the problem. Start simple......
 

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It could be very related to that one box of ammo. Only use the American Eagle or the Blazer ammo on your next range trip and see if you Kimber functions properly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
As Kruzr noted; it seems to be a problem with not enough extractor tension (my first Kimber came like that).

It's something that you can correct yourself, and here's some extractor tuning info by Bill Wilson:

http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm

Rick
Thanks. I'm going to run another couple hundred rounds through it first to get closer to the break in point, then see if I need to adjust the extractor.
 

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It only takes a minute to try the shake test in the link above. Why not check it before you shoot it?
 

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My Kel-Tec .380 does NOT like Fiocchi ammo! Runs fine with everything else I've put through it.
 

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I just posted a complete extractor adjustment set for sale. Don't guess at it, do it right.
 

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If you have not already, break the gun down and give it a good cleaning again before the next range trip. Check to make sure there is no crud in the extractor as well.Then get the gun nice and clean and relubed.
I also brush on my lube with my 1911s seems to work better for me. With my Kimber ULTRA TLE II, I have the protac mags. seem to work well so far. Good luck and try a few different ammo's once you think you found the right one get a few hundred rounds and run it through.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It only takes a minute to try the shake test in the link above. Why not check it before you shoot it?
Well. I pulled the slide and put a round into the extractor and shook it around and the round stayed solidly in place. I could shake it pretty good and it stayed in place.

My two new mags arrived, both Kimber mags. So I loaded all three mags and hand fed them through all nine rounds of each mag. They all extracted and ejected fine.

So, unless the extractor tension is too tight it must be okay. It certainly doesn't seem to be too loose based on the links provided.

I'll take it to the range Friday and see how she does. It's beginning to look like that box of Fiocchi. I'll update Friday.
 

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Does your extractor clock (rotate in it's channel?) Push on the top and the bottom of the inner edge while installed in the slide with the FP stop and see if it rotates.
 
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