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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking for a 9mm. This gun would be used for practice (9mm cheaper than 45 ACP) & some carry. My primary carry gun is a 1911 & although I will still use it a primary carry gun it would be nice to have another gun to carry (but not as a backup). Always have liked a Hi-Power but have not seen any at the local dealers. No comfortable buying sight unseen at Gunbroker, especially for the prices that I am seeing. Seems like most nice Hi-Powers are around $900. Not looking for something flawless (this will be a shooter & a carry gun), but want something decent.

If I can't find a nice Hi-Power, I'll get a Sig 226. Also a great gun, but certainly not a good for concealed carry.
 

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Gary Cole (CDI Sales at gunbroker) as a superb reputation, mostly refurbished issue HPs but his selection is huge. I personally got an FEG PJK-9HP that is an excellent true HP clone, and you can sometimes find these at reasonable prices. Sarco may still have some of them used for sale, and run under $300. Either way is a good way to get into a HP IMHO.
 

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I also recommend Coles (Gunbroker). The pictures they post are very good and the description is spot on. I purchased a FN MK III from him sight unseen and am very pleased with the pistol and the transaction.
 

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In regard to Cole's I heartily agree. I recently bought a 1995 manufacture MkIII Israeli import from them and was really impressed with customer service and price. The pistol I received was not even one of their top-priced items but was, to my surprise, so new appearing on the inside that it didn't appear to have been issued or fired. It's at the shop now getting a whole bunch of stuff done to it and I'll try to put pictures on the site when I get it back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Gary Cole (CDI Sales at gunbroker) as a superb reputation, mostly refurbished issue HPs but his selection is huge. I personally got an FEG PJK-9HP that is an excellent true HP clone, and you can sometimes find these at reasonable prices. Sarco may still have some of them used for sale, and run under $300. Either way is a good way to get into a HP IMHO.
I could not find anything for sale under 'CDI Sales' or 'Coles' (I did a search puting both names under seller). Does Gary not have anything for sale or is there a different name. Otherwise, if someone has a phone number I could call him direct & not deal w/ the hassle of Gunbroker.
 

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Here's a particularly decent Israeli marked, re-Parkerized, forged frame, '90 MkIII w/ correct MkII/MkIII ambi-thumb safety, correct solid trigger pin and original MkIII dovetail sights sold by Gary Cole DBA cdisales. Once you've viewed this particular BHP, just select "View seller's other auctions" and you'll have plenty more to choose from.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=378799249
 

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Looking for a 9mm. This gun would be used for practice (9mm cheaper than 45 ACP) & some carry.

My primary carry gun is a 1911 & although I will still use it a primary carry gun it would be nice to have another gun ...
One thing I noted is most 1911 shooters who then get the BHP complain about the trigger, safety, the grip, etc. I had a modest military background with 1911s when I got my BHP so I really got a firm foundation with the BHP especially as a policeman shooting a lot of rounds for training.

If the 1911 is second nature to you why not get a 1911 in 9mm?
 

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As submoa points out, the correct user name is cdisales with no spaces. The gunbroker search system does not search sounds like. The space will cause it to show no items found with your criteria. If you want to filter out the non hi power items, do the search with user name and the manner Coles describes/spells their hi power listings at this time after you get to the first auction in the link. 800 plus items is tough to look through.
 

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To get the entire list of guns that Cole's has for sale, enter cdisales in your web browser as a search term. The fist entry that should come up has a title similar to "all for sale on Gunbroker". Click on that and the entire list will come up -- like 400+ items.
 

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I just rechecked and it is currently 812 cdisales items. You have to filter that down to hi power only as described above in the gun broker advanced search if you have no interest in the non hi power items.

Eta:

I currently get 142 hi power items using that method.
 

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One thing I noted is most 1911 shooters who then get the BHP complain about the trigger, safety, the grip, etc. I had a modest military background with 1911s when I got my BHP so I really got a firm foundation with the BHP especially as a policeman shooting a lot of rounds for training.

If the 1911 is second nature to you why not get a 1911 in 9mm?
Because the 1911 was designed as a military pistol meant to shoot the .45acp cartridge...

The BHP on the other hand was designed as a military pistol meant to shoot the 9mmP cartridge...

The .45acp is too big a cartridge for the svelte BHP and the 1911 is too heavy a pistol for the 9mmP cartridge...

Next thing you'll be having cats and dogs mating :eek:

See? ;):D
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Here's a particularly decent Israeli marked, re-Parkerized, forged frame, '90 MkIII w/ correct MkII/MkIII ambi-thumb safety, correct solid trigger pin and original MkIII dovetail sights sold by Gary Cole DBA cdisales. Once you've viewed this particular BHP, just select "View seller's other auctions" and you'll have plenty more to choose from.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=378799249
Thanks for the lead. I did look at his other auctions and it looks like he has quite a few. I am not knowledgable on BHPs, and hope that you can answer a couple of questions:
  • How can you tell that this is a MkII/MKIII? It is listed as a HP35. Do the Isreli markings make the guns more or less desireable?
  • I am interested in the bigger sights & ambi safety like the one in this listing, but not all the guns listed have them - are these not MkIIIs?
  • Some of the listed guns seem to have a sight groove milled into the slide or is it my imagination? Is this a good thing?
  • All of these have a 10 rnd mag. why not as a 13 rnd was standard? It seems like magazines are $30 or so, but did not see that CDI selling any. Does it make sense to get Browning mags or other manufacturers OK?
  • How difficult will it be to remove the magazine safety. Will the trigger be OK or will a trigger job still be desireable?

I am looking for a shooter as well as a carry gun, and not a safe queen. Thanks for helping to educate me on BHps!
 

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An original MkII produced from late '81 through '89 is easily distinguished by a narrow rib running the length of the slide from the very rear, ending in a plain, low, integral front sight. The rear sight is a wide notch with a rear step cut in it to give it a wide flat rear face...it is of course dovetailed. The thumb safety is extended and ambidextrous, it was introduced with the MkII and went on to be standard for the MkIII even today. The feedramp will be straight in contrast with the earlier feedramp which had a distinct hump...it is more hollowpoint friendly. There's a small drain hole in the front of the slide below the bushing. The MkII also introduced the thumbrest plastic grips carried over to the MkIII. Oh, late MkII pistols normally contained a firing pin safety making them the MkIIS. With that said, Israeli doctrine used to call for Condition 3 carry...hammer down on an empty chamber, sooo the MkII ambi-safety was superfluous...and was either replaced in-house or came from FN with 1 of 2 single side nubin' sized safeties. Speaking of Israeli surplus, any parts that could be changed often were. The MkII came with the standard...since '71, spur hammer v. the original ring/rowel hammer. Mk II pistols were matte finished and came in black, black paint over Parkerize, dark grey Parkerize and a greyish OD Parkerize...virtually all the surplus Israeli MkII pistols have been refinished. One last thing, MkII pistols came from FN with either a solid OR split roll trigger pin, some trigger pins were replaced by Israeli armorers with split roll pins.

The MkIII...'89 to present, kept the straight feedramp, ambi-safety and plastic grips of the MkII as well as the firing pin safety of the MkIIS. The MkIII slide was changed by eliminating the ridge and dovetailing larger sights front and rear. The drain hole was deleted but the spur hammer continued as standard. Again, FN supplied the Israelis with MkII pistols with non-standard features and Israeli armorers were known to switched parts at will. A split roll trigger pin in a MkIII...unlike some MkIIs, would have been an armorer replacement.

There were what we call "Transitional" pistols with a combination of Classic Vigilante, MkII and MkIII features and what some call a "MkII 1/2" identified by a very short in height rib which appears as an extension of the trigger guard that runs the length of the dustcover. The rib is peculiar to Israeli pistols. You'll note the MkIII I posted the link to has that rib and some might ID that pistol as a MkII 1/2, but everything about it is just standard MkIII.

Some seek out the Israeli marked pistols for...whatever, some couldn't give a hoot while others still prefer only the FN factory applied markings.

As mentioned above, the larger sights dovetailed front and rear are a defining feature of the MkIII.

The sight "groove"...actually rib, is a design feature of the MkII. BTW, though smaller and not replaceable without milling, the MkII sights can be very fast and effective as the rear notch is the widest of the lot. A lot depends upon one's eyesight.

There are states where magazine limitations are still or now in place by state law, I'd imagine that Cole's is covering their collective butts while at the same time providing readily available 10 round magazines. Price of mags? Factory mags can be marked "Belgium", "Italy" w/ or without witness holes...MecGar of Italy has been the OEM manufacturer for FN for decades...oh OEM mags of the late '70s and the '80s weren't marked at all. BHP magazines are a subject in and of themselves so stick with commercially packaged 13rnd Mec-Gars...their 15s also work, I'm just perfectly happy with the 13s...there were OEM 20s as well...

The magazine disconnect/safety is easily removed with earlier pistols, but most MkIIIs usually require removal of the trigger...and all too often the trigger pin can be "difficult". Most often removal of the MDS results in an slightly reduced weight of pull with a good deal less "creep". It is not common but far from unheard of for there to be reset issues. Truth be told, most folks are very happy once they remove the MDS. FWIW, a good smith can get you an excellent trigger with the still in place.

That MkIII I linked would do just fine for range and/or EDC, I've got pistols just like that and would not hesitate to carry that BHP myself.

Hope that's of some help...
 

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Why? WHY, did you see fit to post links to such HP's? Now I have to fight the urge to get one of them. :dope:

Very decent HP's. I bought an Izzy HP 2 years ago and I love it. I might try for one of these.

How hard is it to swap out the old-style safety for a Mark III type ambi safety on an HP?
 

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Thanks for the lead. I did look at his other auctions and it looks like he has quite a few. I am not knowledgable on BHPs, and hope that you can answer a couple of questions:
  • How can you tell that this is a MkII/MKIII? It is listed as a HP35. Do the Isreli markings make the guns more or less desireable?
  • I am interested in the bigger sights & ambi safety like the one in this listing, but not all the guns listed have them - are these not MkIIIs?
  • Some of the listed guns seem to have a sight groove milled into the slide or is it my imagination? Is this a good thing?
  • All of these have a 10 rnd mag. why not as a 13 rnd was standard? It seems like magazines are $30 or so, but did not see that CDI selling any. Does it make sense to get Browning mags or other manufacturers OK?
  • How difficult will it be to remove the magazine safety. Will the trigger be OK or will a trigger job still be desireable? I am looking for a shooter as well as a carry gun, and not a safe queen. Thanks for helping to educate me on BHps!

MMH, this post sounds just like many of mine about a year ago. The fine folks here answered all my questions and provided me lots of information. If I may, this is what I found. I decided on a MK III and after I personalized it a bit absolutely love it. I believe (and I might be wrong) the grooved slides are MKII's and the milled slides are MKIII's.
Cole's lists the pistols with 10 round mags but both of mine shipped with 13's, and they work fine. If you'll email them I'd bet they have mags for sale, I got one extra for $22.00.
I didn't notice any markings on mine (I'm sure they're on it but they don't stand out to me) and I don't know about desirability of with or without them.

The mag safety is easy to remove but it was difficult for me to get the gun back together. If you're even a little mechanically inclined (apparently I'm not, but I'm good with kids and dogs, so my wife keeps me around) you'll find it pretty easy and there are lot's of videos on You tube showing how.

If you are going for a shooter/carry gun, get one with the bigger thumb safety or get one from C&S. I didn't and found it was very awkward to manipulate quickly. I put the C&S safety on it and problem solved, but I learned a lesson. This is it on Midwayusa: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/413867/cylinder-and-slide-extended-safety-browning-hi-power-blue but there are other places you can get it.

Good luck, but be careful, once you get one you'll want more. :)
 

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Submoa:

You have rendered a valuable service to Bhp humanity and to me personally. I salute you. I would have never had the patience to type all that on anything less than a full sized keyboard.

RKJ:

All hi power frames and slides are milled. It is the only method to turn a raw forging, in the case of all slides and in the case of cast or forged frames into a frame or slide. The term milled in regard to steel refers to the use of a milling machine.

Grain flour or cotton may be milled but on different machines.

Just a little humor.
 

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Submoa:

You have rendered a valuable service to Bhp humanity and to me personally. I salute you. I would have never had the patience to type all that on anything less than a full sized keyboard.

RKJ:

All hi power frames and slides are milled. It is the only method to turn a raw forging, in the case of all slides and in the case of cast or forged frames into a frame or slide. The term milled in regard to steel refers to the use of a milling machine.

Grain flower or cotton may be milled but on different machines.

Just a little humor.

Chuntaro, Thank you. After I read your post I realize you are absolutely correct. And I didn't read SubMoa's post before posting myself, I could have saved myself a lot of typing. :) Seriously, I do want to say thanks to you and all the others that helped me when I was looking and trying to figure out what was what in the Hi Power world. You all had a lot of patience and while I mis-speak (and type) I learned a lot.
 
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