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I'm considering the future purchase of an evil black rifle (the more evil the better).

I know NOTHING about rifles. I did own and shoot a 30-30 when I was a teen.

There are a couple of factors that I'm considering

1. cheap ammo
2. fun to shoot
3. short enough for HD if needed (have handguns too)
4. long enough for ranged shots if necessary

As I mentioned before I don't know anything about rifles (compared to those here).

I've looked at

1. VEPR style AK's (nice looking)
2. FN FAL (seems really long)
3. Beretta Storm

I know that there are tons of AK fan out there and the FAL is a great weapon. It seemed very long for anything but range shooting though. Lots of people will knock on the CX4 Storm because it's handgun caliber but it would seem to meet some of my criteria.

The CX4 Storm is just under 30 inches in length. I'm not sure of the lenth of the others. I don't know anything about ammo cost either but comments in that area are welcome.

Let me know if I left anything out.
 

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mr_dove said:


The CX4 Storm ............Let me know if I left anything out.

Seems to me like you have already made up your mind.



As for cheap ammo, versital, tried and true -

AR - in carbine config

AK - I like AKMs instead of RPKs due to the weight.

Good luck
 

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Check out Olympic arms I just got a PCR-16, and am very happy so far. Cheap ammo, (.223/5.56mm) Very fun to shoot, reasonable price, good quality, 16" bbl (shortest legal length correct?) , and accurate too. You also can't go wrong with some of the other AR's (bushy, colt, RRA etc.) but they're more spendy.
 

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First, I would think you really want to settle on a particular caliber.

In "evil, black" configuration, your main choices would seem to be:

5.56x45 (AR15 and variants)
7.62x39 (original AK47 and variants)
5.45x39 (AK74 and variants)
7.62x51 (FAL, M14 and others)

The 5.56x45 is fast, light, capable of very high accuracy (both the ammo itself and the rifles that shoot it), is reasonably inexpensive, and effective enough for most "serious social purposes" at closer ranges (out to at least 150 yards).

The 7.62x39 will be cheapest to shoot, but the guns shooting it are less innately accurate, albeit more robust and reliable, also usually heavier (especially in VEPR form) than the guns shooting 5.45x45.

The 5.45x39 ammo is harder to come by than 5.45x45, and is NOT more effective except in particular forms (eg, the infamous "poison bullet").

The 7.62x51 is a step up in gun size and weight, also significantly so in penetrative power and range, and has great potential accuracy, too.

HTH. Best.
 

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check out DSA's FAL's they have some FAL's in the carbine models. I ordered my STG58 Carbine which I can't wait to get. The only negative thing I have to say about an FAl is it is excessively heavy but I don't mind though. The FAL is also a very good long range shooter and is usually a very reliable weapon. It is chambered for the .308 and NATO 7.62 which is readily available. Parts are also common. Ar's except for the 10 don't the punching power a 7.62 does. AK's good rifles too, can't beat their reliability. M1A's- excellent accuracy but very picky and hard to maintain. Just my 2 cents
DSA rifles
FAL torture test
why the FAL?
 

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Start reading AR15.com

Do not, however, be seduced by the guys who buy a perfectly good rifle then hang all sorts of unnecessary (and very expensive) crap on it. Buy (or build) a basic rifle, put a good dot or low power scope on it and spend your money on ammo to learn to shoot it.

Plan on spending around $1000 by the time you are done. Do not look for the lowest price (necessarily) until you know what you are about.

Good luck, they are fun!

Cheers!
 

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I would suggest an AR15. They are a blast to shoot, very accurate, and the ammo is cheap.

As far as the Storm, I used to have a H&K USC carbine in .45. I didn't think it was very fun to shoot compared to my AR's. If I'm gonna shoot .45's, it's gonna be out of my 1911. I would never attempt to shoot a pistol caliber carbine at 100 yds, let alone 200 or 300 which I can do with my AR15.

Buy a nice AR15 from Bushmaster or Rock River Arms and be done with it. I don't think you would be disappointed.
 

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Get the AR. I have a Wasr 10 and a Bushmaster. I like both but the AR gets the nod for the majority shooting that I do. The Ak is more robust but less accurate, and changing the mags takes some getting use to to be proficient.
 

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mr_dove,

Going by the criteria you have listed, I would have to say the Storm is a pretty good bet.

1. cheap ammo - Pretty Darn Cheap if you look around

2. fun to shoot - Looks mean but is a ball to shoot, also, a breeze and I mean a real breeze to take down and clean.

3. short enough for HD if needed (have handguns too) Sorry, don't know what HD is. But, the carbine is only 29" long and light as a feather.

4. long enough for ranged shots if necessary - Depends what you mean by "ranged shots". It's a carbine, I don't think I would try any 500 meter shots with it, at least not if my life depended on it.

You can change barrels from 9mm, .40cal, and .45 cal. Swap case ejection from left to right or vise-versa.
 

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I have to go along with the crowd recommending the AR. I have three ARs and an FAL. I personally love the FAL and have had this one for over 10 years however the FAL is quite heavy and can be an intimidating rifle to try to shoot compared to the AR. The AR is lightweight, handy (just as quick of a pointer as the .30-30 lever guns are), cheap ammo, and you will be surprised just what you can do with a .223.

I also second the advice to not listem too much to the marketing of all the "cool" attachments to put on an AR. Just pick you out a good one (maybe a "flat-top" just to you can scope it later) and expect to spend between $750 - $1,000 just for the rifle. Instead of thingys to hang on the rifle, buy mags and ammo instead and go shoot and learn the rifle. Also subscribe to AR15.com and listen to the guys there. There are also knowledgeable people hanging out over on Battlerifles.com and thehighroad.org.

When looking at buying one, I recommend sticking with either new or used ones factory assembled. My three are all different makes - Olympic Arms, Bushmaster, and Armalite - and they all work great. You won't go wrong with a Colt either.
 

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Based on your criteria I'd say AK47 or AR15 would fit the bill. The FAL, while a great rifle, is going to be heavier and a little bit more to handle because of .308 round.

Between the AK47 and AR15, the AK will probably be cheaper, as will mags for it, it will be more reliable and it will be easier to field strip and clean (although the AR15 really isn't that hard either.

The AR15 on the other hand, is likely to be significantly more accurate and, if you are over 5'4" tall will probably fit you better. There are also a larger number better variety of accessories if you want to spend more money down the road. (Although I agree with others, you should keep it simple, particularly at first.

The choice is ultimately yours, although if it were me I'd go with the AR15 because I think ultimately it's more versatile. In a carbine configuration, its light enough to be used at fairly close range, yet accurate enough to shoot out to 400 or 500 yards and to attach a scope to, if you are so inclined. While the AK can also certainly reach out 400+ yards, because its not as accurate, its less effective at those ranges.
 

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Without knowing how much you want to spend, it's really impossible to tell you what you should get. You can go anywhere from a $300 AK clone, to a $1200+ DSA FAL clone.
 

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If you go with the AK go with an Arsenal. Can't beat the quality of these AK's, guy out here has one and it never skips a beat. Ammo is a very cheap and easy thing to come by and the Arsenal will digest any ammo you feed it.
 

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I like the Bushmaster Dissipator because it's got the shorter 16" bbl so it's easy to maneuver around with, but it also has the longer forend and a full size sight radius for increased accuracy. No problems at shooting over 100yards either.
 
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