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Discussion Starter #1
i picked up a used older AO took it out and after 2 mags the front sight took a hike :mad: I looked for it for a little while but no telling where it went.So I ordered a new sight and staking tool from Brownells. I guess I get to try my hand at staking on a sight.I have never done this before so any tips or tricks would be great.Its a narrow tenon if that makes any difference.Thanks Roy
 

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I would greatly consider having a dovetail cut and front sight pinned on for that reason
 

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I have found that if sights are staked on properly that they will last the lifetime of the pistol. Look at all of the old government pistols still around, heck, they fought in several wars with staked on sights. It's no different than staked on plunger tubes. A lot of factory guns have loose plunger tubes because they are not staked on properly, but if they are done right, they last the lifetime of the pistol also.

Here is a 'Cliff's Note's' rundown on staking a sight with a Mini Machine. I wouldn't reccomend the arsenal staking tool, it's not a very good method, and difficult to get right, although not impossible. The cost of the MMC tool might make it a little expensive to do at home though.

First you would need to take this area


And cut a well in it with a carbide cutter




Gather up your MMC sight staking tool


Align and install your sight


Stake it



And 'viola!, your done.




But, like I said, you would be dollars ahead having someone do it.
Hope this helps.
***Thanks to Dave Sample for providing the images.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks from what I have found ,cuttting the "well" on the inside seems to be the trick.I took my slide off and the sight that was on there was staked but without any signs of a well for the metal to swage into.Which is probably why it came off in the first place.Thanks again.
 

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Why doesn't anyone make a scew-in type front site like they use on the Glocks? Is it just because the inside of the slide is cuved on the 1911 and therefore a flat "bolt" head won't work?
 

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I have to agree with the "properly done staked is good for the lifetime of the pistol" side in this one. Looks better, too - a bit more elegant. Like it grew there.

And unless your "dovetailed" sight is pinned in place, a whack from the side will move it. Unless you notice this, you are now "off target"! Staked sights, again properly done, don't move, period.

Our shop uses the same tool - both MMC and Trijicon sell pretty much the same item - and we have yet to have a return even without the "well" although we do use red Loctite. As for the cost of the tool, yes, it's over $200. But have you paid to have a couple of slides milled for dovetails? For a single use, have someone else do it. If you intend on having 1911s the rest of your life, then tools for staking front sight, plunger tube and grip screw bushings might be a good investment over the long haul. With the proper tools and spare parts, none of these are difficult service items, by the way.

From personal experience, I have two 10MM Deltas (as much slide velocity as you are likely to see) with larger/heavier than factory replacement sights (one Trijicon) staked on and both are still firmly in place, thousands of rounds later.

But the dovetail does allow easier switching of blades, etc. I've just never found a need to do that. Like many other things 1911 - you pays your money and takes your chances.

Critter - Thanks to you and Dave for the photos!

Warmly, Col. Colt

"Beware of Counterfeits & Patent Infringements" - Samuel Colt - from a mid-1850's Colt newspaper ad. More True than ever!
 

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Col. Colt said:
And unless your "dovetailed" sight is pinned in place, a whack from the side will move it. Unless you notice this, you are now "off target"! Staked sights, again properly done, don't move, period.
IMO if the front sight is done correctly (which you have to assume with either method...lets compare apples to apples at least) its as strong if not stronger. Also if you have a slide with a uncentered hole then you SOL as far as sights go cuz there is no easy way to move it. with a dovetailed sight, you can atleast move it if nessesary. also this day and age there are more choices as far as dovetail cuts and the sights that fit them. with the staked sight you need the right diameter, adn by that point you may only have one or two choices.

"Beware of Counterfeits & Patent Infringements" - Samuel Colt - from a mid-1850's Colt newspaper ad. More True than ever!
the patent was lost years ago...it aint patent infringement anymore...just a better product.
 

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If you have ever tried to remove a dovetailed sight, you would find that it takes a lot more than a few taps, if it is done right. Any front sight that needs to be pinned is done incorrectly, and that is just a fix to a problem that shouldn't exist.
Now, let's assume someone like Don Williams or Chuck Rogers dovetailed the front sight for you. It would be done right, period. Now, the force needed to move that sight would most likely break the sight off IF the force of the impact were on the vertical part of the sight. These sights need to be drifted at the bottom horizontal portion, of the base.
I'm not particularly in love with either method, just with what is prudent to do with my money. On a new build, I would certainly go with a dovetailed sight, technology moves on, unless it is a 'retro' type build like I just completed, then staked on would be in order.
On a repair, I would go with the existing method unless it was actually unrepairable by the hole being wallowed out to large, then a dovetail would probably be less expensive that a weld and mill job.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for all the help.I agree a dovetail front sight( A novak rear cut would really be nice too) would be nice but since I just got the gun I think I would like to shoot it some more(only shot 14 rounds before the sight blew off)before I start putting too much money into it.Right now I just want to do a basic replacement type repair.With any luck I will do it semi-right and it wont come off again.Thanks again!
 

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Critter,
I think NJKimberSS is refering to the original John Moses Browning (and other) patents that were taken out when Browning, Colt and the US Army jointly developed the 1911. And he is correct about the patents being pretty much lapsed. (I don't know about the ones on the Series 80 lockwork.)

I use the quote because I find it appropriate, from my point of view as an honest Colt partisan. My emphasis is more on the "Counterfeit" than the "Patent" side of my namesake's original quote. (Counterfeiting not having a time limit, even if patents do.)

Warmly, Col. Colt

PS - NJKimberSS, by the way, which area of Kimber superiority are you speaking of - the MIM parts or the Series II safety?

"Beware of Counterfeits & Patent Infringements" - from a mid 1850's Colt Newspaper Ad. Still true, 150 years later!
 

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Col. Colt said:
Critter,
I think NJKimberSS is refering to the original John Moses Browning (and other) patents that were taken out when Browning, Colt and the US Army jointly developed the 1911.

"Beware of Counterfeits & Patent Infringements" - from a mid 1850's Colt Newspaper Ad. Still true, 150 years later!
;) I knew what he was trying to elude too, but me thinks he may have overlooked the '1850's' part of your sig line. Just trying to keep people on their toes around here. :)
 

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Col. Colt said:


PS - NJKimberSS, by the way, which area of Kimber superiority are you speaking of - the MIM parts or the Series II safety?
over all fit and finish. but i wasnt actually referring to JUST kimber. Gotta look at Wilson, Kimber, Baer, sti/svi, etc...

I stand by my statement that if you can do it, dovetailed sights are better. Unless you are goin for a period build.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Well my sight got here today and I got it installed.I guess only time will tell if I did it right.I plan on shooting it this weekend so if it flies off again I will let you know.Thanks For the help.Roy
 
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