[Arrowman]

Sitting here trying to figure out a real puzzler.. My brother's new Kimber Classic is absolutely EATING hp's. Mushes them out of round, badly. Worst is with HS's and Winchester "White-Box", only slightly with Golden Sabres.. We're both waiting for our Wilson 47d's to arrive (darn postal service) and are wondering (hoping) this will solve the problem. Currently we've tried 3 different "Shooting Star" (crapola) mags with the same or worse results.

So, I ask of the guru's out there, does this sound like a mag issue, or something more serious?

Thanks,
Patrick

 

[John Harrison]

Patrick,
Are you having stoppages and by the time you jack the slide a little it has mashed the bullet? If so, where is the round stopping? Is it the first round out of a full mag, or all of them? The nose may be getting mashed because the angle of delivery from the magazine is too shallow. Try bending the topmost coil of the mag spring upwards a little to try to make the nose of the bullet point a little higher.

Your problem also might be a low mag catch shelf.Try holding up on the base pad while loading and see if it feeds better. If it feed significantly better, try a mag catch from another gun. This is a hard test to do while firing though.

Be careful while you work your way through this problem that you don't push the bullets any deeper in the case, as high chamber pressures can result in a blown case.

I'm not sure enough of the details regarding where, when, you see the mashed bullet to suggest more than this. Post more information and I'm sure that someone here can help you out.
Good Shooting,
John Harrison

 

[Arrowman]

Thanks John,
Actually, the gun has been 100% reliable through 300 rounds so far. 150 FMJ, 50 Golden Sabres-230gr, 50 Winchesters, and 50 Hydra Shoks.. All of the ammo used was retired carry ammo we were burning off (except the ball.) Would this have anything to do with it?

The magazines appear to be seated fine, it looks like it's either a "nose-low" issue (which would be consistant with the fact that so far we cannot get Gold Dots to feed reliably) or a feed ramp geometry issue (Lord, I hope not.)

I've been watching for set-back (see my other thread re- gold dots from speer.) Thanks for the word of caution.

We ordered half a dozen 47d's from Wilson last Tuesday, still aren't here. We're hoping they solve the problem, I'll post results once the USPS delivers.

Patrick

 

[John Harrison]

The Wilson's will most likely help. The current production mags have improved feed lip geometry that will help keep your "nose up"

better when the bullet nose gets to the feed ramp. The followers are designed to reduce the possibility of a tip over and they work better than the Shooting Star mags in this regard. In my experience, some guns run fine with Shooting Stars, but any gun that won't run with Wilson's has got problems that need to be addressed.

I'm still curious how you are seeing the nose deformation, is it when clearing a jam or is it after clearing a chambered round? Just wondering........
John

 

[Arrowman]

I see it after clearing a chambered round. (This gun has never jammed.) I know it's probably not an issue worth too much concern, but I've always checked to see if the act of chambering a round is doing something unwanted to my ammo. (Concerns over setback and deformation-induced accuracy issues.)

Unfortunately, it looks like I'll be waiting until this weekend for more testing, as a call to Wilson for a tracking # uncovered some error or another that delayed my order, it shipped today. I was unable to get a reason out of the rep, or a courtesy upgrade to overnight shipping. Suffice it to say I will not be dealing directly with them again.

 

[gyp_c]

Have you increased the weight of the recoil spring for some reason? I don't see a reson for this unless something has either changed the pistol itself or the ammo is already driven deeper into the cases giving you "shorter" OAL ammo to start with...I had a SA Champion that would chew up ammo when the ejector and extractor went out at around 800 rds fired...
Interesting

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>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<

!!!Molon Labe'!!!

 

[John Harrison]

Sorry to hear of your shipping woes. I buy everything that I can from Brownells, simply because of their customer service. They have been "stand-up" guys every time it has been needed. I'm going to shoot up some Hydra-Shoks this weekend. I'll clear a couple from the chamber and see what deformation exists. I'll be shooting them through a custom Springfield Gov't and custom L.W. Commander, both -w- new Wilson mags. I'll let you know.
Regards,
John

 

[Jim Hanson]

arrowman,

I have a custom commander built by Rogers and for what it is worth, even in this gun hydras get their nose deformed. Gun is running a wolff 18# variable and no buffer.

Every gun I have tried hydras in has deformed them upon feeding them "up the pipe" almost all were being fed through wilson mags.

I have checked the hardness of the lead in hydras and it appears to be just a step or two above pure, dead soft lead. Which is darned soft material.

With my gun, sabres, sxt's (both leo and civilian) and gold dots, none deformed any measurable amount, nor did they set back any.

But I have had problems with both setback and with deformation with the hydras. That is one reason I Will Not Carry Them.

hope what little info I was able to give helped out some.

Take care, Jim Hanson.

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Go Rogers Precision, You won't go wrong!!!!!
My Work Place-->http://www.McMfamily.com

[This message has been edited by Jim Hanson (edited 11-06-2001).]

 

[nwgunman]

I've notice some bullet "set back" in my Springfields, even using Wison mags. With my guns, it looks like the "nose into the ramp" thing. It's worse with other brand of mags. This is why I only chamber a round once. I've noticed that if I hold the mag up fully into the well, the first round feeds a little more smoothly (from slide lock). I've ordered an STI slide catch which is supposed to have a higher lip and hold the mag up there. Hopefully this will help. Stay safe. Of yeah, I was sorry to hear about the poor service from Wilson. I've had very good luck dealing direct so far. Maybe it was the "rep" you dealt with?

 

[Arrowman]

Thanks all for your responses.. .here's a little update..

Took the gun for it's first serious range visit yesterday. Ran 200 rounds through it, 150 FMJ, 20 GS, 10 Hydra's, 10 Speer Gold- Dot, (All 230gr) and 10 Pro-Load 200+P's...

I guess the stock spring was a little tight and unsettled, as it's feeding quite a bit more smoothly, and now it's only 'eating' the Hydras (Which, I too, have decided to fire off and not buy again.)

Off-hand 10 yard, 5 shot groups:
(not scientific)
FMJ= ragged hole
GS- Cloverleaf just over an inch, as close to POA as the FMJ
Speer GD, 3" (Mushed with possible setback, lot's of flash)
Hydra's, 2" , about an inch low of POA
Pro-load.. tight, ragged hole, dead on.

I think I found my load, though I'm going to need more testing once my 16.5lb variable power wolff spring and buffs arrive.

I think this was mainly a 'tight gun' issue, with some soft lead from Federal tossed into the mix.

Thanks again for your help folks.

Patrick