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hello all,
i am trying to answer my own questions through researching this site's archive, but cannot yet find the definitive answer to this question yet. i have been bitten by the "build your own bug" and am looking into all the info i can. i prefer the firepower of the high caps and the widebodies just fit my hand better. that said, i am confused about the legality requirements of the preban high cap replacement tubes. i have read elsewhere here that the damaged bady must be kept or recorded officially to warrent the repair. i don't want to get into the legalese wars of what constitutes repair, but i don't want to get into trouble if i find a few prebans and they have damage to them i would like to safely and legally repair them. what is the specific requirements for this? please feel free to point me to threads already covering this topic to avoid redundancy. take care.
 

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There is only ONE way to legally build/possess a magazine with a post 94 tube if you're not LE.

You must posess a pre-94 magazine. You can replace the worn tube of your pre-94 with a brand new body, but the old tube must be crushed or otherwise rendered permenantly inoperable AND retained as proof that you are replacing parts on an old mag, not building a new mag.

If you build a magazine with a post 94 mag tube and don't have a crushed pre-94 magazine tube then you are in violation of the 1994 crime bill act, which amounts to a ten year vacation to "Club Fed".

Illegally building such mags is not only risky and stupid; it isn't always cost-effective either. Fortunately, pre-ban Para mags are GENERALLY plentiful enough to be had for a reasonable price.
 

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Law

Can anyone post a quote about the law section stating the pre-ban tube must be crushed and retained for proof? This is the first I have heard of this and I would like to know also. No offense to anyone, but I would rather not depend on posted law "opinions".

Thanks!
 

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There is no specific wording of the law to my knowledge. You could just as well videotape yourself taking a cutting torch to the old body and marking the new tube with a mickey mouse emblem. There are all kinds of ways to establish proof that you have replaced a mag,not illegally created one. However a 10 year federal sentence is motivation enough for me to cover my ass. I would retain the crushed tube as proof. The liklihood of you ever being questioned about the validity of your "pre-ban" mag is almost nil, but this is a stupid thing to go to federal prison should you be the unlucky stiff that the law catches up to.
 

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Replacement mag tubes for pre-ban magazines are not marked any different then pre-ban mags. You do not need to have proof of a pre-ban mags destruction on file to replace a damaged magazine tube. I wouldn't worry about it. As long as you know you are not breaking the law, you are innocent until proven guilty. So, if someone is going to charge you with constructing new hi-cap magazines after the ban, they will have the burden of proof in any legal proceding. I don't think anybody is going to go thru the effort of doing this unless they are already investigating you for a more serious Federal crime that they can't quite prove.

If you are paranoid and you have a used, damaged hi-cap, you can just throw the damaged mag body in a drawer somewhere and there is your proof. If you have a new defective factory magazine Para will replace if for the cost of shipping. I believe there is no reason to break the law and try to build a new Para hi-cap mag. The last time I checked, you should be able to find preban magazines for only $5 or $10 more then the sum of all the parts added together. So it doesn't make sense to construct a new hi-cap from parts. Just keep an eye out for deals when you can find them.
 

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Icazes

If you find that position so ridiculous then why don't you go out and try it? Build your magazine(s), retain your old tube(s) un damaged and bring them in a briefcase to your nearest ATF branch for inspection.

Or if our position is again on the BS side for your tastes, then why don't you do the legwork and read the statutes yourself?

I have no problem with anybody who questions a source. It helps affirm/reaffirm & challenge our knowledge of the law. Somebody challenged elsewhere what appeared to be a common belief that "you couldn't legally put M-16 fire control parts in your AR-15". The difference however, was that this person after hearing the side of the nay-sayers introduced facts and his own work he put into finding out what the truth really was.

So if you would care to call the ATF and secure a written letter on the matter would love to read it.
 

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Hey pulpsmack,

Where's your documentation that you need proof of the damaged mag body to avoid being accused of a federal crime? You said yourself it doesn't say that in the federal statute. That's just your opinion but you don't back it up with proof either. Tell me, do you have proof that your magazines are pre-ban? How would a Federal Agent know if they were? How would he know they weren't assembled after the ban? Did you keep your receipts? I didn't keep mine. I don't think I even got one from the dealer at the gunshow. But I'll bet the agent would take your word on it unless he had cause to think you were lying. In which case you've got other problems.
 

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This discussion, fellow shooters, is just another example of a silly law that hopefully will not continue past 04. Ban 11+ round capicity mags, but not ban replacement parts? Flawed law for the intent anyway. Keep our fingers crossed that Bush will let the bill die, and satisfy 200 mllion gun owners!
Innocent until proven guilty!!!!
 

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Paten said:
Hey pulpsmack,

But I'll bet the agent would take your word on it unless he had cause to think you were lying. In which case you've got other problems.
Absolutely. There has not been a single case in which somebody was CONVICTED of violating the 94 federal crime bill, but some have been arrested and had to pay $$$ defending themselves. What we are discussing is academic and virtually meaningless, given the fact that the AWB will sunset within months. What will invariably replace the 94 crime bill, and when it may happen may ressurect this debate however.

Kingfish,

As far as the silliness of this unconstitutional law goes, nobody here can argue with you. Unless Bush is a liar however, he is the enemy as he claimed that he would see to signing a permanent AWB should the legislation find its way to his desk. He knew full well that the chances would be slim, and this would be good posturing for a liberal concession, but the damage was done whether he makes the vote or not.

My biggest problem (besides the idiocy of our legislators) is the powers of the ATF. It is a reckless and irresponsible abuse of our rights to furnish a government organization with the power to both enforce the law AND interpret the rulings. Our founding fathers saw fit to divide the government and somewhere along the line we saw fit to undermine them with these government agencies. I know that this WILL sunset. I also know that more treacherous unconstitutional legislation will follow sooner or later.
 

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kingfishcam said:
This discussion, fellow shooters, is just another example of a silly law that hopefully will not continue past 04. Ban 11+ round capicity mags, but not ban replacement parts?
That's just the half of it. They ban "assault weapons" based on how they look, not how they function. It's all about 'feel goodism' by the uninformed (If you put a thumb-hole stock on an SKS, it becomes a "sporter"). Unfortunately, Bush has stated that he will sign new legislation reinvoking the AWB. Fortunately, most of what I'm hearing from the legislators is that they won't bring new legislation to the President for him to sign. He may also know that and is just playing the politics game, but I wouldn't want him to say something he doesn't actually believe is the right thing to do.
 

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Pulpsmack........Nobody is questioning the details of the legislation, just that you would make a statement such as this and state it as fact and then admit later in the same message that you have no documentation to back it up.
 

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Jeepers, guys! There's been a lot in my life that I've read, comprehended, and made conclusions based on that I no longer have "documentation" for. I have carried the conclusions with me but can't possibly bring every piece of information that brought me to those conclusions in perpetuity.

Don't chastise the guy for not spoon feeding you. You've heard something different than what you understood, perhaps it is an area you feel you need to investigate, or not. If you aim to disprove what he said, why don't you read the '94 Crime Bill for yourself? Whether or not you disprove what he says, at least you'll know for yourself. If not, don't tear the guy down until you can provide a factual, logical basis for your argument.

A pissing match between the two of you will do nothing but raise the emotional ante and encourage folks that don't have patience to put up with it to no longer invest their valuable time here. Who knows, with more participants willing to take the time to participate, we may learn something we never even contemplated due to our ignorance.
 

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pulpsmack said:

If you build a magazine with a post 94 mag tube and don't have a crushed pre-94 magazine tube then you are in violation of the 1994 crime bill act, which amounts to a ten year vacation to "Club Fed".
Here is where you strayed off-course.

I might agree that retaining the "crushed pre-94 magazine tube" is a good CYA idea, but you are most certainly not in violation of any law if you don't.
 

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XTrooper, do you have any idea how the authorities can prove you built a new pre-ban mag from parts instead of replacing one that broke?
 
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