1911Forum banner

1 - 20 of 61 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
975 Posts
I was walking down a deserted street at 3:30 am taking the nightly deposits to the bank before heading home. The street is a lively area with a mixture of night clubs and shops.
It is a historic district and all the buildings are old, most have lofts above the business. Most of the buildings have walkways between them leading to the loft stairways.

As I pass one of the darkened walkway a man steps out and asks for change and then pulls a fixed blade hunting knife and demands my cash. We are facing each other about 6 feet apart. I'm armed with a Browning hi-power in a Galco shoulder holster.

So what would you do?
Light him up?
Run?
Go for the knife?





------------------
Mike Benedict
Talon Tactical Holsters
http://users.supernet.com/taos/talontactical.htm
[This message has been edited by mike benedict (edited 01-01-2001).]
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,457 Posts
Since you are to close to draw without getting cut, you either have to close the distance/move off the line of attack and go hand to hand, create distance so that he can't slice you, or give in to his demands and pray he lets you go. Of course, if you escape unharmed, you should give yourself a proper ass kicking for being dumb enough to put yourself in that situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
I would try to put some distance between myself and the bad guy, then OODA (Observation, Orientation, Decision, Action) LOOP again. If I could not increase the distance then I would try to increase the angle of the avenue of approach to deflect the attack if possible. With only six feet distance there is no way to clear leather from totally concealed into a firing position. Cold steel will likely finds its home before one can get thier weapon online.
Only thing I would do is to try and improve my tactical situation, thus allowing me to get to my weapon. This just happened to me sorta kinda, see my post this forum.

Mark Crawmer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
975 Posts
I forgot to tell you what actually happened.

When he pulled the knife (Buck fixed blade) I drew my Hi-power and asked him if he would like to live to see tomorrow. He was totally surprised by the pistol. He dropped the knife and ran off into the night.
I went on to the bank, then home and never reported the incident at all.

Mike


------------------
Mike Benedict
Talon Tactical Holsters

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
172 Posts
You have proposed a "no win" situation in many respects; at that distance you WILL get cut if that is his intent.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, is to "change the game". The BG is expecting a fairly predictable transaction to take place; either you comply, or he lunges. How about breaking out of that mold and acting nuts? Or falling down?

All you need as a second to regain the initiative if you can get this guy "off center" without closing distance.

These are not "good" options tactically, but life doesn't always give you a "good" scenario to start with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
Maybe a "throw-away" wad of bills carried on the weak hand side thrown to the ground. If that satisfies him, you're out a few bucks. If it looks as if it will not satisfy him, perhaps it is enough of a distraction to allow you to move and draw.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,987 Posts
"...asked him if he would like to live to see tomorrow."

...ya' gotta' love it

------------------


>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,692 Posts
According to the way I have been trained:

1. Drop a throwaway wad of 10 one dollar bills. Not much cash but it looks like a wad.

2. As he looks down at the money on the ground, back up yelling, "Drop the weapon" while drawing your pistol.

3. When he looks back at you, if he hasn't dropped the weapon he is still a threat. If he isn't running away at the sight of you with your pistol on him: double tap center of mass. Evaluate.

I believe people who make their living threatening others lives don't deserve much of a chance. What if instead of you it was your daughter or someone else's daughter and he decided on something else to go along with the valuables and then decided since she had seen him, he couldn't let her live? How would you feel reading about this in the paper later knowing an innocent spent the last 20 minutes of her life in horror, humiliation and pain? As someone else said, we need to throw more chlorine in the gene pool.

These are my beliefs only. I don't know how I would react to this in person. This is how I hope I would react. When I started carrying and training for situation when I might have to use deadly force, I hve done a great deal of thinking on the subject.

Any confrontation you can walk away from is a good one. I don't have any problem with how you handled the situation and my hat is off to you for keeping your cool.

Did you keep the knife as a souvenir?

------------------
The man who can keep his head and deliver accurate return fire while lead is whistling throught the air around him will most often prevail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,157 Posts
Silly me... I probably wouldn't have asked him the question, just drawn, and fired, as the threat was completely within "Contact" distance, and chances are good I wasn't his first, and at this point, may not be his last.

I am with Bill... My fear is that someone like this may prey upon someone else, and that person may not be able to defend themselves.

You said you did not report the incident, was that due to the lack of getting a good look at the perp. It seems being a good witness, and reporting the incident might prevent someone else from being victimized by this punk. If the guy wasn't wearing gloves, the knife he left would provide prints.

Anyway Mike, glad you're okay, and not trying to recover your Hi-Power from evidence
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
538 Posts
At 6' knife and a determined knife person can make me dead in a NY second. I know of no one that can draw and fire as fast as a knife at 6' can kill.

If I cannot create distance or get something in between the goblin and self, he gets the money, loose bills dropped at his feet. At that point I try to create distance.

The best solution, is not to get into the situation. Sometimes routine tasks are allowed to be completed on automatic pilot. I made night deposits for 20 years, and never allowed myself to become complacent.
GLV
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
While the idea of bizarre behavior, such as "going nuts" can throw off the goblins concentration and even create confusion, the suggestion of "falling down" is not a good tactical idea. The reason why is this will immediately remove one of the most useful tactics available, the ability to move, either attack, retreat, or evade.

For future reference to mike benedict, you might consider not walking alone at 3:30 am with the nightly deposits on a deserted street with lots of hiding places between buildings. Armed or not, you are already at a disadvantage because your attacker can (and did) have the element of surprise and as a result, also was able to get to within 6 feet of your person. Had he wanted to, you would have been cut. The gernally accepted draw and fire time of 1.5 seconds (best time) on an assailant with a knife means that assailant needs to be more than 21 feet away (Tueller distance). Many adults can cover that distance with a knife and strike within the 1.5 seconds.

You got lucky and came out just fine. That is what is important. Consider the lesson as Darwin giving you a second chance. Don't give Darwin another chance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
975 Posts
Well Gopher Darwin aside I have been fortunate to have lived an "interesting" life
And I have had many more than a second chance.
I too have played the Tueller Drill but I don't think it reflects reality in most cases. This perp was not lungeing at me and he certainly wasn't expecting a gun.
I'm not sure if I would not do the same thing again.

As to a 1.5 sec draw this old man can do .8 sec. double taps from cover and I think most people would not even have time to react. You might not want to bet your life on it but I guess I did.

FWIW Ohio doesn't have CCW and may never and I don't think reporting an almost robbery is worth the aggrivation and cost.

all is all this is a most interesting discussion.



------------------
Mike Benedict
Talon Tactical Holsters

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
"1.5 sec draw this old man can do .8 sec. double taps from cover and I think most people would not even have time to react."

Yep, he sure can! I've seen him do it many times.

Neil

[This message has been edited by Neil Casper (edited 01-01-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Neil Casper (edited 01-01-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Assuming you were CCW legal then not reporting could have really backfired on you. We were instructed that it was not uncommon for a fleeing attacker to drop a dime on the GG sort of a "man with a gun" call to 911. Then you get picked up or traffic stopped and the cops assume you are the bg. Your word a against the bgs.
Your call but something to think about.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,601 Posts
Hmm, You must have gotten bored after eating the pumpkin pie on New Year's day to be telling this story. You need to be making holsters, the orders are piling up, keep going this way you gonna have a waiting time as long as that guy in Illinois.


------------------
Talon Tactical
Southeast Asia District Sales Manager
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,845 Posts
Although it's very likely I would have drawn and fired, and possibly been cut to shreds, I hope I would have enough sense to try and increase the distance between us while drawing.

The best way to make the streets safe is to drop this scum in their tracks on a daily basis.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Lucky for that sh_tbird you were feeling charitable Mike. Giving up drop money, as some of you have said, doesn't always mean you won't get assaulted and cut badly. I believe I would try to create room and make the BG spring multiple leaks while doing so. Then I'd definetly need new boxers!
 
1 - 20 of 61 Posts
Top