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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
In keeping with the giving and sharing nature of this forum, I need to "fess-up" about something that I never thought would happen to me. Any of you who have read my posts about the Schwarz thingie in the II series Kimbers know I am not a fan of the concept or its execution by Kimber. Or, until today, I wasn't a fan. The Schwarz has been "re-enabled" on both of my carry Kimbers effective immediately - by taking out the Series 80 firing pin and re-installing the stock Kimber FP.

Why? Simple - a quite loaded (new series Ranger T RA45T), cocked and locked CDP Pro II left my Jackass shoulder holster when I stood up (I was positive I snapped the retaining strap) and gravity took it straight down to the floor (which, fortunately, had a carpet on it) passing right through the bottom of my "sweat-shirt" - and landing on the rear portion of the bottom of the grip. Quite surprising I must say. Fortunately, the professional meeting I was attending had not started (I was the first to arrive) and I was alone in the conference room. After my brain re-started I quickly grabbed the gun, checked the safety (on) and shoved the wayward Kimber into my waistband and covered it with my shirt. I had just tucked it away when the next participant entered the room. Let's just say I am grateful in the extreme that no one got hurt and my dignity was preserved.

Landing on its wicked butt did not cause an AD (and likely never could unless the laws of physics change), but a slight cartwheel could have changed that situation (Plaxico where are you?) and positioned the muzzle for primary contact and the possibility of discharge.

So, even though formerly a LEO, and having carried a piece for over forty years, and even though an extremely careful gun handler, I have witnessed and participated in one of those little lessons where, fortunately, the only thing damaged was my shorts - but lesson learned. I also tightened the retention screw in the shoulder holster which had "relaxed" over time.

It was in the precise instant that the gun hit the ground that I wished I had not disabled the Schwarz. Think about it. It can happen to you. My holster was not the only Jackass in the room.
 

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I'm sure the pucker factor was high. A good firing pin spring is a necessity when using any 1911 firing pin safety or none.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks guys - and have you ever heard of a double inverted pucker? I had one today. The Kimber has an "extra power" firing pin spring installed that came with the XP spring Wolff makes for the 4" Kimbers.
 

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LJA, I recall your posts regarding the Swartz safety. I’m glad the incident turned out okay, and no collateral damage was done.

I had a similar experience at a defensive handgun class when I fumbled my draw in haste. I felt my Kimber slip from my grip after I removed it from my holster and snicked off the thumb safety. At precisely that point, I thought.... “Oh crap, the thumb safety is off. If the gun falls to the ground, do not try to catch it. Just let it fall and have the Swartz do it’s job. Even if the hammer drops, the grip safety isn’t pressed to deactivate the Swartz.” Fortunately, I somehow managed to regain my grip on the gun and it did not hit the hard dirt below. However, I definitely felt my heart skip a beat.

I always function check my Kimber every time I clean it. I have not had any problems with the Swartz. It works and there is no need to fix something if it isn’t broken.
 

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Glad to hear, other then your shorts, everything turned out ok. Another "what if" factor would have been, after you had disabled the swartz and a discharge (under those circumstances) would have occurred and the round had struck someone else (besides the emotional issues) but what would have been our legal issues. Just a thought.
 

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hmm..not sure what you do for a living or what kind of meeting you were attending, but I attend board room meeting's constantly, never carried to one and wont. A death of two kinds could have come from this, 1) Yours or someone elses, 2) a professional one. I leave the weapon in the car but that's just me, glad no one got hurt.
 

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The Kimber uses the grip safety to operate the firing pin block, so the trigger pull is not affected, as the Colt system does.

But there have been tests done, with guns dropped from heights onto concrete an the gun does not fire. It takes the hammer blow to move the firing pin against the rebound spring. If you have a titanium firing pin it is even less likely to fire.

Still a firing pin safety lock that is properly adjusted does no harm.
Improperly adjusted and the pin can be damaged causing it to stick locked in the forward position, making a fixed firing pin machine gun.

Extra power springs are not a bad idea and inspection of the firing pin is a gooid idea.
 

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Wow, I had to take a deep breath just imaging that! :biglaugh:

Glad things did go really bad. Shorts are easy to replace, and Christmas is just next week. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ticeman - apparently you have not had a pistol stolen from your vehicle. I have lost two that way. While I agree overall with your way of doing things, there are times when it is less smart to leave the gun in your car than carry it properly concealed into a meeting. Depends partially on where you live and partially on where the meeting is. When you think about all of the workplace shootings that have occurred, you seriously have to weigh the benefits of leaving your piece in the car. My profession carries with it some real risk - so I have no qualms about proper concealed carry in most circumstances - but not all.

Kind of like the argument over carrying in Church. Lots of folks believe that, in these "uncertain" times, when people are packed inside a building that would be a natural target for terrorists or the deranged, somebody should be packing.
 

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I know just how you felt!

I was qualifying a group of shooters at the range one day. One of the investigators had a brand new Glock 27. I gave the command to load and holster. He loaded, and put the weapon in his new tight holster. As soon as his hand was off the weapon, it tipped backwards, fell to the deck, landed on its rear sight on the concrete, with the muzzle pointing right at me. I swear I saw that happen in slow motion but was unable to move! Safeties are usually a good thing...so is having a spare pair of pants in your ride!
 

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The Kimber uses the grip safety to operate the firing pin block, so the trigger pull is not affected, as the Colt system does.

But there have been tests done, with guns dropped from heights onto concrete an the gun does not fire. It takes the hammer blow to move the firing pin against the rebound spring. If you have a titanium firing pin it is even less likely to fire.

Still a firing pin safety lock that is properly adjusted does no harm.
Improperly adjusted and the pin can be damaged causing it to stick locked in the forward position, making a fixed firing pin machine gun.

Extra power springs are not a bad idea and inspection of the firing pin is a gooid idea.
I know, there have been tests, but there also have been people on this forum who claim an AD with a S70 type or new SA pistol that was accidentally dropped from its holster and landed just right. It may not happen every time, and it may not be highly likely, but it is possible. That's why, like it or not, the FP blocks are in the Series II and S80 -- for the "what if" scenarios.

Here's a couple:
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=217601&highlight=accidental+discharge

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=194231&highlight=accidental+discharge

LJA - I think you should pack wherever you legally can. Not only for the reasons you mentioned, but the last thing I want is someone to come in shooting everyone with a gun they just stole out of my car!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Again - thanks to all who responded. rdh - I concur 100% and do carry wherever I can. You never know when the unexpected will happen - but there are lots of examples and they are occurring with increasing frequency. The conditions of my permit prohibit carrying in various places - so I don't. If I have to go to such a place, I leave the gun at home instead of in the car. I lost a Sig 220 and a sweet HK P7M9 in car burglaries (one in my driveway and one outside my office).

I looked at the other threads you posted, and think everyone should. I have learned the hard way that it is best to admit one's own stupidity quickly and correct the error.

SrJim - thanks - I think I have some fancy new undies with 1911's embroidered on 'em sitting under the Christmas tree. Brown, of course.:biglaugh:
 

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I know, there have been tests, but there also have been people on this forum who claim an AD with a S70 type or new SA pistol that was accidentally dropped from its holster and landed just right. It may not happen every time, and it may not be highly likely, but it is possible. That's why, like it or not, the FP blocks are in the Series II and S80 -- for the "what if" scenarios.

Here's a couple:
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=217601&highlight=accidental+discharge

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=194231&highlight=accidental+discharge

LJA - I think you should pack wherever you legally can. Not only for the reasons you mentioned, but the last thing I want is someone to come in shooting everyone with a gun they just stole out of my car!
Claim is a key word. Of course I didn't pull the trigger and I assume it "just went off."
The Mythbusters did a thing about Russian SKS rifles being carried by Russian gangsters being set off by noise from a powerful car stereo.
People are always looking to blame the machine.
 

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Glad nothing bad happened, but you don't have to enable the Schwarz to have a drop-safe 1911. My three non-Schwarz 1911s all have titanium firing pins with extra power springs. Problem solved, and no added parts to muck things up. My Kimber will have the Schwarz gutted and a titanium FP when I change the rear sight, as will my Smith & Wesson. Remember, simple is good. :biglaugh:

Robert
 

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Since I just got a series 1 kimber, I'm assuming I should take note of this.

What does adding a titanium firing pin and power spring do?
 

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Since I just got a series 1 kimber, I'm assuming I should take note of this.

What does adding a titanium firing pin and power spring do?
The lighter FP and heavier spring make it more unlikely for an accidental discharge if the weapon is dropped on the muzzle...the FP won't fly forward far enough to contact the primer of the chambered round.
 

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The lighter FP and heavier spring make it more unlikely for an accidental discharge if the weapon is dropped on the muzzle...the FP won't fly forward far enough to contact the primer of the chambered round.
What is the carry reliability of the titanium and power spring?
 

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What is the carry reliability of the titanium and power spring?
Better than the Schwarz system. The titanium FP/heavier spring is the old gunsmith way of making a 1911 drop-safe without resorting to other mechanical additions (Schwarz/Series 80). Springfield (Imbel) has been using it for some time without issue (two of the 1911s mentioned are Springfields, the other is the Caspian/Colt that I put together--though soon to be headed to pistolwrench for some upgrades on the Colt slide :rock: ).

Robert
 
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