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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone seen Miss Information? You know, that gal with bleached hair, beyond chubby, fake boobs and cross eyed. She seems to be the one giving out information on various guns that has no basis in fact. You know, the one that is so often quoted as "I heard that . . . ".

I used to shoot with one guy that admitted he did not know how to shoot but asked for help (unique, but easy to handle his request). After two years of instruction by THREE different NRA certified instructors he still doesn't know how to shoot.

He has been looking at two of my Kimbers (Pro Carry and Pro-HD) and went out and bought himself one of each then called to ask if I would take him out to the range. No problem. Just watch him closely. At the range he asked me to shoot both of them to see that everything worked.. OK, I'll be happy to shoot new guns with the owner supplying the ammo. One full mag through each, both functioned properly (and had the sights dead on).

He went out to the plate rack and did a little shooting and a LOT of fussing and fiddling and then came back to the firing line - slide locked back, magazine well empty and finger off of the trigger, but waving it around. I was not happy but with an empty gun, I didn't say very much (just - HEY watch where you point that thing). He said "Oh, sorry." and put down the one gun and loaded three magazines. His comment was "Boy I'm sure having problems with that gun." I asked if he wanted me to try it and was told to go ahead. One of the mag's had three rounds in it and I grabbed that one, put it in the gun he "was having problems with" and knocked down three straight 8" plates from 25 yards. Worked fine.

He then loaded some other mag's, picked up the second gun and went back to the plate rack. Repeat above. This time in returning, the slide was locked back, magazine out of the gun but with his finger on the trigger and waving the gun around as he returned. TRUST ME. If I can, this guy will never shoot at that range again.

My whole point in that lengthy (sorry about the length) dissertation is that if you were to ask him about Kimbers, he would tell you that they are a problem, when the actual problem is with the person holding the gun.

I have been reading reviews of several different manufacturers and really wonder just what percentage of the negative reviews are actually a negative review of the person's operating skills with the gun, rather than any problem with the gun. :scratch:
 

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That hit home a bit.............

Can't say how broad the reality of this is but:

I have owned multiple Kimber's and (and others). All of my Kimber's have been workhorses and just plain accurate. They have never glitched in my hands. I did let another shooter at the range try one of them out (a full sized all steel Custom II) and he had FTE's out the kawaa....like every other round. Then, right back into my hand and zippo problems once again. I know guns can and do act up, but that one has never even hinted at being a problem in my hands.

That was the only time I saw a gun that always worked in my hand act up immediately in another person's hands......so it does happen.

Be safe, shoot well. :rock:
 

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w0ipl-Pat said:
...I have been reading reviews of several different manufacturers and really wonder just what percentage of the negative reviews are actually a negative review of the person's operating skills with the gun, rather than any problem with the gun. :scratch:

Yes, some reviews really make you question the mindset of the writer.
Some people clearly have an axe to grind with certain manufacturers.

Even the "always positive" reviews in the gun magazines are sometimes
suspect.
 

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I work in computer retail. I've long since lost count of the people who had no idea how to install a mainboard come in with their non-functional PC and bitch us out that we sold them a piece of crap. I'm quite certain it's no different with gun dealers.

While I love America and the American way, once thing I don't like is our tendency to throw blame on something or somebody else when things don't go right.
 

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Sir, I think the problem you describe is far more common than we might like to admit. Once ego gets involved, objectivity goes out the window. [shrug]

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
 

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Not the same, but I do confess if I had read about extractor tuning and had the proper equipment from the get-go, my 1911 wouldn't have had the FTRB issues that it did. Or I could have sent it back to factory to fix (which I had to do to have them replace the front sight). Minor tuning and and understanding of the platform really helped.
 

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Yeah, I never thought of that. I bet Larry Vickers, Hilton Yam, Tim Lau and Hackthorn have probably little or no real world experience with 1911's. :rolleyes:

Now it all makes sense!
 

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I will take some offense at your remark

dsk said:
I work in computer retail. I've long since lost count of the people who had no idea how to install a mainboard come in with their non-functional PC and bitch us out that we sold them a piece of crap. I'm quite certain it's no different with gun dealers.

While I love America and the American way, once thing I don't like is our tendency to throw blame on something or somebody else when things don't go right.
If you mean that some Americans would rather blame anyone and anything rather than admit they are just as full of you-know-what as the rest of us, then I whole-heartedly agree. My way isn't perfect, but it works for me, and that is what is important.
As far as guns go, I have only had one that I ever had any problems with. (This was a SigP229 in .40S&W, and it was actually the fifth gun I had ever bought) Right from the beginning I was not able to hit the target the way I wanted. My first action was to get one of the people that worked at the range to shoot it and see if it did the same for him. (It didn't) That meant the problem was me. The choice was this: Figure out what I am doing wrong or sell it. I ended up selling it and not having an odd caliber. (Different from all the other guns, I should say)

dsk, I work in electronics repair. You would not believe the dumb questions I get asked. (Well, maybe you would)
When told the problem is that their radio is wet, the reply was "Well, the other guy's works when it is wet, why doesn't mine?" :eek: :dope:
I was also asked by a customer "Why was it fine yesterday, but broke today?" :eek: (This is the same customer that spent over $400 per radio and then proceeded to buy used batteries off ebay because they were cheaper, and then wondered why their radios didn't work right. :scratch: :dope:)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
JoseM said:
Any chance he'd sell those kimbers since they are clearly sub-standard?:p Of course since they're not up to par...I'd expect to pay a deep discounted price!
You are in line - right behind me :) :biglaugh:
 

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full-auto said:
Yeah, I never thought of that. I bet Larry Vickers, Hilton Yam, Tim Lau and Hackthorn have probably little or no real world experience with 1911's. :rolleyes:

Now it all makes sense!
Who's talking about Larry Vickers?
 

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I've seen many times when someone told me that something or some product was junk, only to have it work perfectly for me.
Just because you do not like something or haven't taken the time to learn about it, doesn't mean it is a bad product.
I have also had people warn me about the service at certain shops, only to have that same shop exceed all of my expectations,(may be it wasn't the staff that was the problem?). :scratch:
Sometimes it's Ford verses Chevy all over again
 

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dsk said:
Who's talking about Larry Vickers?
When someone says that those who say Kimbers have problems are in essence noobs and their comments are born from ignorance of the weapon, this implies that the above mentioned smiths who have spoke out about Kimbers poor quality as of late are unknowledgeable.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=1684445&postcount=15

Case in point:

Just because you do not like something or haven't taken the time to learn about it, doesn't mean it is a bad product.
 

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I have seen others have problems that I did not have (with the same piece)
Seems to go back to the grip alot of the times.
 

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full-auto said:
When someone says that those who say Kimbers have problems are in essence noobs and their comments are born from ignorance of the weapon, this implies that the above mentioned smiths who have spoke out about Kimbers poor quality as of late are unknowledgeable.
I don't think the OP here was specifically attacking anyone who berated Kimber. Instead I believe he was merely saying there are a lot of people who make a harsh judgement against the weapon without admitting that it is they themselves who might be responsible for the problems they are having. That's different from folks who actually do know what they're talking about forming an opinion.
 

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I own three Kimbers. Ultra, Compact and Custom CDPs. THe only malfunction I have had in any of them was the Compact when I let a semi newbie shoot it. I can only think he limp wristed it and caused a FTE.

So point taken. Regardless of manufactuer. Sometimes maybe the operator is the problem not the gun.
 

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gun owners

f4t9r said:
I have seen others have problems that I did not have (with the same piece)
Seems to go back to the grip alot of the times.
sig people defendttheir turf. glock owners defend their turf, colt 1911 owners defend their turf. chevy owners defend their turf, ford owners defend their turf, we could go on and on and on. Normally it seems that if a gun buyer buys whatever and it works 100% , then it is a good gun but if not then it is a POS. Buy what you want, shoot what you want, hopefuly all will be ok.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
U2BassAce said:
So point taken. Regardless of manufactuer. Sometimes maybe the operator is the problem not the gun.
True. I also think that if someone has a failure, have two others (hopefully well experienced) try, and see what happens. If all three have the same failure, you most likely have a problem in the gun. If the first failure is the only one, probably not the gun.

My gripe is when someone says XXXX (gun maker name) "has a lot of failures" (or more commonly) "fails all the time", look at your own experience and that of others, before making a decision.

Some actually have nothing to say, but have a compulsion to say something anyway. Those are the ones that will typically have negative "reviews", based on "I've heard". :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Springfield 1911-A1 Operation and Safety Manual said:
Page 10 under UNLOADING

The slide of a 1911-A1 pistol should never be released on an empty chamber; especially one which has had an action job. Releasing the slide on an empty chamber causes damage to the breach face on the barrel and unduie stress on all action parts, including the hammer and the sear.

Page 12 under MALFUNCTION WARNING!

Number 2. Most failures to feed or chamber are the result of a damaged magazine, improper gun handling or defective ammunition.
The first portion I've read from several sources and I'm quite comfortable in not dropping the slide on an empty chamber. But the second portion causes me a bit of heart burn because no one mis-handles a gun (heavy on the sarcasm there). :grumble:

I wonder if information like this could be one of the reasons people would immediately think "bad gun" on many FTFs?
Much of what they say is valid but when you say "Most failures"? :scratch:
 

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One thing is for sure; it happens...

Other than 1911's I like the little Kel-tecs, and frequent the ktog board. There is an abnormally high number of newly registered users that have problems with their new gun. I believe a lot of the problems people have is lack of lubrication (which they are more sensitive to in my limited experience); more from limpwristing; and more from cheap ammo. My first P3AT had problems with cheap ammo (American and Independence IIRC), but cleared right up when I switched to Federal or CCI.
 
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