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Discussion Starter #1
Sorry to bring this up again but most of the discussion about carry mode 2 I understand.
My question is mode 3 vs mode 1. Obviously if you or your job has you in anything like
what a law enforcement officer experiences, not using mode 1 is crazy, at best. I am
looking at carry mode 3. To me, while it significantly adds to the time between perception of
threat to full ready, it provides far less exposure to problems in two areas.

1) Main spring compression: If you carry on a daily basis, you would then maintain your
gun in full compression of the main spring for literally months at a time. UNLESS you
went into problem 2 below. This may be why Kimber recommends changing the main
spring every few thousand rounds.

2) Once a round has been chambered and removed from the chamber, it should be relegated
to use as a practice round. This because after the second (or so) chambering, the bullet begins to
be pushed further into the case. I many cases where the person has traded the top two rounds
into and out of the chamber many times, the round(s) will become so short they will not chamber
properly, or worse yet will create a severe over-pressure situation on firing. FTF on the second
round or having a catastrophic failure of the gun on firing is unacceptable.

YES I understand the added delay in being ready to handle a nasty situation. My point is
how many people remember to rotate out those rounds that have been previously chambered?
Second to that is the cost of premium grade ammo. To spend a dollar or two to improve your
safety is a DUH, until you look at that being on a daily basis. If you were to unload every night
and load a fresh round in the chamber every day that would cost you $300 per year just to have
fresh ammo in your gun (fresh ammo is a REALLY good idea).

OBTW, I run Federal Premium LE rounds, 230 Gr. HP +P which just went up to seventy five
cents per round. Once again, if that is five or ten per year rotated out, I fully accept that cost as
necessary. It's the six boxes per year, just for rotation, that I object to.

If you run mode 3, all of the extra cost is avoided. YES, again, it DOES increase the time it takes
for you to be ready to handle the BG but I contend that if you are doing your job of maintaining
situational awareness, that should be of minimal problem. I have been carrying for eight years
now and have had only three situations where I felt threatened. Of ALL of those, I was simply
able to move away from the developing situation (avoidance) to have it resolved to my
satisfaction. - - But then again, I refuse to sit with my back to the door in a restaurant.

What have I missed?
 

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What about mode 2; bullet in chamber, hammer at half cock.
Don't know if it is faster than mode 3 but appears it could be for most people.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Primary objection that I have heard (and agree with) is the exposure to problems as you bring it to half cock AND the unnatural positioning of the hand while recocking.

I'll skip mode 2.

Thanks
 

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1. Springs held in compression do NOT weaken, so says spring companies, Engineers and metallurgists as well as many shooters who do this routinely. There are many reports of springs being held in Compression for years with no loss in compression strength. What does weaken springs is cycling the spring from compressed to uncompressed.
2. In a self defense situation seconds DO count so being able to instantly bring your weapon into firing condition is a lifesaver.
3. Condition 1 (Cocked and locked with a round in the chamber} is perfectly safe in a 1911 with it's 3 safeties.
4. In a self defense situation, you might well need the off hand for other important functions, not racking your slide.
5. Half cock is probably the most dangerous and unweildy of the three conditions because of the potential for inadvertant discharge. Uncocking to the half cock has a high potential for losing control of the hammer and inadvertant discharge. In a stress situation, as in self defense, your finger has a higher degree of probability of slipping off of the hammer than it does the thumb safety.
6. Relegating a round to a practice round is no big deal. Most shooters, after a period of time fire the whole magazine of defense rounds and recharge with new defense rounds.
7. Considering the gun's safety and more importantly your own safety, Condition one (Cocked and Locked with a round in the chamber) is, far and away, the preferred carry condition.
 

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Some good advice is already being shared here. :cool:

Considering the reality of just how fast things can happen I go with the cocked and locked mode as 1st choice these days. Back then, I literally had seconds to make a choice, grab up my weapon and act.

I've been handling guns for over 53 years now. I have had a few times of "heightened" concern and two times of real flat out threat. One of those times came down so fast that if I had been able to grab and fire in one fluid move I would probably be dead along with the person with me. As it was I took a grazing round even then. Any slight advantage is one that might save your life if the time ever came.....may it not.

As in anything, you weigh out what it takes to make something work for you and either go that way or not. For me, any gun and ammo used for SD/HD gets handled and shot on a regular basis. I fire up my current SD ammo periodically and then fresh ammo goes back into mag and weapon. That is just my price of being comfortable with my weapon(s) of choice.

Good luck whatever way you choose to go. :rock:
 

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golfer1 said:
What about mode 2; bullet in chamber, hammer at half cock.
Don't know if it is faster than mode 3 but appears it could be for most people.
Never carry at half-cock; it essentially defeats the other 1911 safeties. And, you still have to thumb-cock to get into action. That is the true problem with anything other than condition 1; two hands are required to ready the gun, and you may not have two available. Thumb-cocking a 1911 is all but impossible to do with the strong hand in a firing grip, as the hammer is too far to the rear to reach. So, you compromise your grip on the gun, in order to reach the hammer, or, again, have to bring the other hand into play? While someone is trying to kill you? No thanks.
If you are worried about wearing-out the mainspring, replace it occasionally.
 

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w0ipl-Pat said:
To spend a dollar or two to improve your
safety is a DUH, until you look at that being on a daily basis. If you were to unload every night

Why would you unload your wepaon every night? Mine goes from holster to night stand and then back to holster. I unload it by shooting it.

And even if for some reason I felt a need to unload and discard a round every day I would rather do that than carry a weapon that is not ready to fire.
 

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Why would you unload your wepaon every night? Mine goes from holster to night stand and then back to holster. I unload it by shooting it
while i dont unload mine everyday, i do check it very often. i do the " pencil check" before i go on duty, and i try to look over the gun before it goes into my holster. like i said, its not everyday, but its often. if im not messing with it though, its cocked n locked.... because thats the way its ment to be.

like stated, its never a bad idea to rotate out rounds that get chambered over and over.

the best thing, is to learn how the 1911 works, once you understand it, youll see how simple it is, and how using the safties really are the best way to carry it.

russel
SDMF
 

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Last year one of my 1911's had light strikes on the firing pin. Luckily this happened at the range and not during a self defense moment.

The manufacture told me that it was caused by a weak main spring. I mentioned that the only time my 1911 was not in condition 1 was when I was shooting it. I was told that may be the reason for the spring issue.

I carry it condition 1 and it is place it on my nightstand in condition 1. If I need to place it in the safe, it says in condition 1. If I need to get it out of the safe in a hurry I know I will likely not have the time to rack the slide to get a round chambered.

I am not worried at all about the safety aspect as I know to always treat the gun as loaded, whether it is or not.

Going back to my second paragraph, I further questioned the manufacture a few days later on my main spring issue and they back pedaled all the way. Since the gun was only six months old and they had another with the same issue they came to the conclusion that they had a batch of bad main springs.

They said that keeping the gun in condition 1 would not have been the cause of the main spring malfunction. That made me feel better as I was concerned about having future light primer strikes.

When I had this problem at the range I had two rounds that would not fire due to the light primer strikes. After dry firing a few times, I shot another 300 rounds that night without a hiccup.

Now, just to be sure, if I haven't been to the range in a while, I will unload my weapon and dry fire or fill my mag with dummy rounds and pull the trigger and cycle the magazine just to get everything loosened up and ready for a fight.

I would not think about carrying my 1911 in anything but condition 1. If this made me uncomfortable for any reason I would know the 1911 was not for me.
 

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Carry your 1911-type pistol in Condition 1 or find something else to carry. That's the bottom line.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
XTrooper said:
Carry your 1911-type pistol in Condition 1 or find something else to carry. That's the bottom line.
Good. I'll carry a Kahr.

Can't believe the number of people that say "Do it MY way or you are wrong."

What happened to discussions?!
 

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w0ipl-Pat said:
Good. I'll carry a Kahr.

Can't believe the number of people that say "Do it MY way or you are wrong."

What happened to discussions?!
Try doing a search. We have had a bucketful of discussion on this very subject many times in the past.

That's why we all cut to the chase.
 

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w0ipl-Pat said:
Good. I'll carry a Kahr.

Can't believe the number of people that say "Do it MY way or you are wrong."

What happened to discussions?!
Not sure about the "do it my way or you are wrong"....but do what it takes to be able to follow up as "quickly as possible" with your weapon of choice once you have made the decision to fire in regards to saving your life or another persons. With a 1911 it is C & L. With another weapon it may be different, like a round chambered and ready to go in a SIG, XD, Glock....or whatever.

And as just stated......my oh my has there ever been discussion on this one before. Plenty of discussion.

Be safe, shoot well. :rock:
 

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Indeed there has been much discussion.

I will mention one drawback to condition 2 that's not often discussed. In condition 1, the hammer is partially protected from impact by the grip safety spur. condition 3 has the hammer down, so impact is a non-issue. condition 2 has the hammer almost totally exposed to impact and the sear engagement would take the full force of a hit to the hammer. IMHO a far higher chance of AD if the weapon is hit or dropped.

If you'll go back and do a search there are hundreds if not thousands of postings on the topic, well worth looking at them. No offense intended.
 

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w0ipl-Pat said:
Good. I'll carry a Kahr.

Can't believe the number of people that say "Do it MY way or you are wrong."

What happened to discussions?!
It isn't MY, it the RIGHT way and the way in which the pistol was designed to be carried. And honestly, I really don't care what you carry or how you carry it. I was simply giving you sound advice.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
BillD said:
Try doing a search. We have had a bucketful of discussion on this very subject many times in the past.

That's why we all cut to the chase.
I did. I got 300 threads in the result. After reading the first page of each thread for the first FIFTY threads, I found the same fal-der-all about mode 1 vs mode 2. As I said at the start, I understand the hazzards of mode 2 and am not questioning any of that logic. But if you look at several replies in this thread, they go into mode 2 vs mode 1. How many times do I need to repeat? I understand that mode 2 is -no- good.

I'm coming to think that there is far too much testosterone on this forum, which manages to hide much of the actual knowledge that is avaiolable.
 

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Look man, you are complaining about the cost of defensive ammo for rotation and you want to carry the gun in a way that is slower and more dangerous to get into action.

You might want to decide it you are committed to a 1911or not.
Do what you want but don't complain to us.
 

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1911s aren't for everyone. Different strokes for different folks. Condition 1 carry is one of the main reasons I have one, that's what it was designed to do. If you like shooting them but don't like condition 1, for whatever reason, you can still shoot one at the range and carry something else.
Just don't go off half cocked, hehe.
 

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w0ipl-Pat: On topics such as this, the search results can be daunting. Also, you make good arguments for your view points. However, many of the people on here have been carrying 1911s before I was born (I am 36), so they are part of my education.
Now, there CAN be some testosterone on this forum (and any forum - the internet makes people more confident, as the personal interaction is diminished) and that is why I try to listen to WHAT people say, and not HOW they say it.
Also, you mention the rotation of ammo - I carry Hornady TAP, and it is not cheap either. I carry it because it is an excellent round, and if I am going to carry a firearm to protect myself and my family, then I am not going to skimp on certain areas. To that end, if I have to spend extra money on my ammo because I choose to carry quality ammo, and I choose to rotate it, then so be it.
I will not carry a firearm in any condition it was not built to be carried in (i.e. when I carry my Glock, I carry with a round in the chamber, when I carry my S&W Model 19... (Ok, tough example there... :rolleyes: ), and when I carry my Kimber, I carry "Cocked and Locked" - it was how the 1911 was designed to be carried...)... there are too many things that I cannot think of that may cause me to need my offhand...
Tom Cruise - Collateral
Just my $0.02... :)
 

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I'm with BillD and XTrooper. The 1911 was designed to be carried cocked and locked. Sure there are other ways but from concealment, from the holster in under 1.65 seconds, any of those other ways will get you killed. If you don't feel comfortable or lack the competence to carry in condition one then find something else. I was one of those that lacked the confidence and competence so I abandoned the 1911 and found an alternative. After many years, I've returned to the 1911 because I made a commitment to be proficient with condition one carry.
 
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