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More crap from the primary Milwaukee rag:

Editorial: It's baaack. Make it go away
From the Journal Sentinel <--- SUCKS
Posted: Sept. 7, 2005

Note: Send your responses to:
Editorial response: http://www.jsonline.com/news/editorials/submit.asp
Forum Topic: http://www.jsonline.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=16947&catID=21&sessionID={E66487F8-EB2B-4747-84A3-E2C4C46293AD}

Last time around, the state Senate showed appalling disregard for public safety and the Assembly only slightly less so. This time, with Milwaukee's homicide rate approaching a record pace, we're hoping some modicum of propriety, leadership and common sense takes hold.

The issue is a renewed effort to enact a law allowing Wisconsinites to carry concealed weapons. This is a bill that should simply go away.

More than 80% of Milwaukee's killings this year were the result of gunfire. So, more guns - what a concealed-carry law would surely bring about - is the answer? Wrong.

Rep. Scott Gunderson (R-Waterford) and Sen. Dave Zien (R-Eau Claire) are reportedly crafting another bill. Wisconsin narrowly escaped such legislation last year when the Senate overrode a veto by Gov. Jim Doyle, but the Assembly failed to override by only one vote.

This time, such a bill shouldn't be allowed to get that far. Republican leadership in both houses should do just that: Lead.

There is no public clamor for such legislation. There is no public need. There is, however, a crying need by the gun industry to create an ever-expanding domestic market. Getting states to enact permissive concealed-carry laws is just part of that strategy.

If the gun industry or its minions are not involved in crafting this bill, Gunderson and Zien should have no problem giving the state's attorney general a draft version. Recently, the attorney general's office asked for a copy but was denied, though the legislators apparently already shared a version with a National Rifle Association representative and others.

But it really is immaterial who writes this legislation, though we, too, believe that the legislators are obligated to share the bill with the public if they've already shared it with interested parties. If the bill allows people other than law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons, it constitutes fuel on fire. It shouldn't even emerge from committee, provided that legislators do in fact allow it to have a full and public airing.

The argument for concealed carry, of course, is self-defense - the notion that people carrying these weapons will deter crime either because they will take out the bad guys or that the bad guys won't commit violent crimes for fear that their victims might be armed. Both are dubious claims. Unless a person has years of training, practice and experience in dealing with criminals, it is just as likely that guns will be taken away and used against their owners or used carelessly by them, endangering the innocent. And a suspicion that a victim is armed may result less in deterrence than in criminals shooting first and checking for weapons - to steal - later.

We await details of a bill to determine what other flaws might be present but are certain that the first would be such legislation's existence in the first place.
 

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:barf:

Makes me sad for our Wisconson-based forumites.

My wife's family is from Wisconson. I'll have to ask them what they think next time we visit. Maybe around Thanksgiving.
 

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If people only understood. Hopefully we will get this passed this time around. It's all about pro-choice. Thankfully I live close to the MN border and they trust me with a ccw permit.
 

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Hey, we did it in Minnesota through our local grassroots org, I think there's alot of untapped power there. I think this is Wisconsin's local org here:
http://www.wisconsinconcealedcarry.com/

There are more links on packing.org which are useful.

Basically, give 'em money, volunteer, show up at events and rallys and the politicians will take notice. Spread the word about other states, heck, Minnesota passed it -twice-!

I had heard the problem was the governor, and the law had passed twice, but was one or two shy of the 2/3 majority required to pass without his signature?

-H
 

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It's just plain annoying how articles like these make assumptions and presuppositions about the effects of CCW while completely ignoring the fact that we've already done it in 40ish states and have had absolutely no problems, and depending on what you read, actually benefitted from it. I guess it's easier to talk about what you think is right instead of burdening yourself to actually investigate the facts... oh well.
 

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Thanks for the mention, harmonii (I'm the treasurer for the WCCA).

This year's fight is going to be tougher than last year's, in part because we have a slightly better chance of getting a veto override.

What's interesting is that the anti's, such as WAVE (Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort) have started very early. There's a rumor that the Joyce Foundation is dumping money into Wisconsin to stop the concealed carry effort cold. And now we have the Journal Sentinel editorializing on the bill before it's even introduced.

We even have Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager going after Senator Zien and Representative Gunderson on some trumped-up claim that they illegally allowed the NRA to view the draft of the bill. Nothing illegal there at all. Gunderson is also authoring a bill on cancer research, and consulted with surgeons during the drafting process. (Gundie's not a doctor, and needed input). Why isn't the AG going after that?

The fact that all of the opponents are starting so early makes me think that they know something we don't. Perhaps it's that Democrats don't want to lose their seats in next year's elections.
 

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harmonii said:
I had heard the problem was the governor, and the law had passed twice, but was one or two shy of the 2/3 majority required to pass without his signature?
actually, I believe it was only ONE vote shy of passing the state senate.. it had already passed the legislature for the second time.. but here is how bad the state politics have been: one of the co-authors of the bill, a democrat named Gary Sherman, flipped his vote to NAY after a two-hour democrat caucus.. our infamous governor was doing overtime to make sure that bill didn't pass

fortunately, the democrats' influence was weakened even more in 2006, and we have a great chance of passing an even better CCW law than the watered down version the self protection advocates were forced to right last time around.. and it's pretty much a given that our governor will be replaced at the end of his one term

what we really need in Wisconsin is a few media outlets that will actually stick to the facts regarding self-defense and "gun control".. as if that's going to happen!
 

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Joe Friday, it passed in both the Senate and the Assembly in November of 2003. The Senate overrode the governor's veto in January of 2004, with one more vote than was necessary for the override. Senate minority leader Jon Erpenbach got into a huge argument with Senator Russ Decker (D-Wausau) in caucus, and Decker stuck it to Erpenbach.

Gary Sherman was one of the votes for passage in the Assembly in 2003. Then Governor Doyle got to him. What was offered, or threatened, only Doyle and Sherman know.

I think he was offered all of the help that Doyle could deliver to get him re-elected, which Doyle delivered on, and an appointment to a state appeals court (which is a $100,000+ a year job) if Sherman lost. I'm not the only one who thinks that was the deal.

As far as Doyle's re-election goes, do not underestimate him. He was re-elected three times as attorney general, all the while proposing bans on guns and ammunition. It was the same union gun owners who voted for him for AG three times who voted for him for governor.

And he's been making some pretty smart political moves lately.

The 2006 election is almost 14 months away. Lots can happen.
 

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I don't underestimate the political slimyness of Doyle.. I think he's capable of just about anything that would further his personal agenda.. but he definitely shot himself in the foot right out of the gates from the last election.. nobody, and I mean nobody, forgets the sleazy deals he made with the casino owners that funded his last campaign.. I certainly can't speak for everyone in Wisconsin, but I don't know a single person, republican, democrat or independent, who likes him.. granted, you don't have to like the guy to vote for him, I guess.. but a lot of democrat voters will probably think twice about putting a mark by Doyle's name the next time it comes up on a ballot.. we can only hope, at least

I haven't heard anything lately from the Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association.. a quick review of their webpage shows this link.. a new CCW bill was supposed to be introduced to the state legislature in July.. I didn't hear anything about it, tho

http://www.wrn.com/gestalt/go.cfm?o...-45BF-8E2A19DF74B28440&dbtranslator=local.cfm
 

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JoeFriday, I'm the treasurer for the Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association. While I'm not the webmaster, I do ask him to post news.

When there's news.

And, frankly, there hasn't been any news for months.

I wish I could say that we have a new story breaking every week. Are there developments with the bill going on? Sure. But they're not for public consumption.

There is absolutely no doubt that Jim Doyle is a corrupt governor. The problem is that he smacks down any legislator who challenges him.

It goes beyond the $750,000 campaign contributions from the gaming tribes to Doyle. It goes way down to even the smallest of deals.

Do a little digging into the issue of the Altoona Roundhouse, and a former legislator from Altoona who voted for concealed carry in 2002. Then see what happened after Doyle got that legislator's district the funds to rebuild the Altoona Roundhouse.

Senator Zien went before the media and accused the governor of buying votes. Zien had witnesses, people who had heard the legislator brag about the deal he cut with Doyle.

The legislator in question threatened Zien with a lawsuit that would have personally cost Zien $20,000 to defend. Too much money, so Zien was forced to shut up.

As Walter Cronkite used to say, "that's the way it is."

Unless some WI citizens get really fed up with things staying the way they are.
 

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MonkeyTurbo: then don't forget to vote.. for whoever is running against Doyle

Monkeyleg: thanks for keeping us current on the CCW situation.. FWIW, the source that I always got my info from in the past was a blog called Boots & Sabers

http://www.bootsandsabers.com/
 
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