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Discussion Starter #1
...they look fine until you tangle with one. After that the taste just never leaves your mouth.

Sorry -- I had to vent. I had a bad experience at my local Turners Outdoorsman today. The counter jockey was a complete misinformed bozo. He had NO knowledge of any of the guns I was interested in and tried feeding me a load of information that I knew from careful research to be ABSURD and untrue.

Thanks for the venue.

:grumble:
 

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How about a more detailed account? What did he try to tell you? What happened? IF you are gonna bitch at least make it interesting for the reader. Details!!!
 

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Yeah. The stories I hear about some of these guys make for a good laugh sometimes.

It's a pity though, isn't it? And it ain't limited to the gun industry. Go into your nearest Best Buy, Frys or Circuit City and ask a few of their people what they know about the VCR/camera/PC/TV sets they're selling.
 

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Reseda store?

I went in to buy a sale item and they didn't have it in stock. They run a sale with no merchandise. That's like saying we are giving away guns but we don't have any! So I ask if I can leave a deposit and choose from stock when they get the item in. He gives me all the wrong information about store policy on this so I leave. The next morning I return to find out I can do what I wanted to do and the store manager says thanks and he will retrain the person in question. We will see cause I pick up the gun monday.:rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Didn't want to bore anyone. Since you asked... here goes....

I went over to Turners to look at 1911s and do a little comparison shopping. Currently, the leading choice for my first 1911 is a Colt Commander. Peering through the glass I saw an assortment of Springfields, a Wilson, a few Kimbers and three or four Para Ordnance.

I asked about Colts. The counter clerk - a round little fellow, with glassy eyes and a shock of messy hair -- told me had had not seen one in close to 7 years and that Colt is only making Military firearms now. I believe he used the word, machine guns. He said it was impossible to order anything from Colt because the store is only allowed to go through the Colt custom shop, a piece will cost in excess of $1000 and I would need to wait 6 months or more for it to arrive. I told him that according to Colt's website they do have firearms for the civilian market. The clerk notes that they can say whatever they want on their website but it does not mean it's true. He continued to insist that he had not seen a Colt in years and then made a quick pitch for the Wilson.

Very well, I thought. I will look at some of the other options. After all, I was not there to purchase, only to shop. I point to a Para 7.45 in the counter. This guy cannot even tell which gun I am pointing to - even though I am using words like -- the Para Ordnance 7.45. No -- THAT one!

He then went off on some babbling tangent about how the Paras are DA/SA guns (last I checked they were DA only). I challenged him on this bit of mis-information. He returns by telling me that he really does not know handguns. He's a rifleman. He got rid of all of his pistols when his grandchildren came along because they are, quote, "too curious". I guess teaching and educating the kids is out of the question. Additionally, I suppose working at a gunshop is not a valid excuse for educating one's self about firearms of all varieties.

Hoping to STUMBLE on some good information -- maybe a recommendation -- I told the clerk that I was looking for a single stack, 1911 style .45 with a 4 inch barrel (read: Compact). Now I admit, I could have been more specific in designating a barrel length because I know that most 1911s have a 5 inch barrel, or a 4.25 or maybe a 3.5". He locks onto my statement and tells me they only come in 3.5 or 5" and then he offers his recommendation -- a DOUBLE STACK Para Ordnance!! Now what did I just say??? Single stack!!! I want a single stack. From there I directed my attention to a Springfield MilSpec at the end of the counter. I asked to look it over. He reaches for a Kimber that was no where NEAR the gun to which I was gesturing. I was not even looking in that direction.

I had just enough time to give this guy a quick lesson on Para's LDA trigger before my girlfriend showed up at my side reminding me of the may errands we needed to finish.

It was only later that I realized that this man never asked me the shooter's fundamental question --- "What will be the primary use for the firearm - competition? Target? CCW? Home Defense?" Because after all, that does have SOME bearing on the choice. If someone comes to me and says he wants a 6" Smith and Wesson 686 for his CCW, I may be forced to make some alternate recommendations!

I got home. I called another store and they gave me some good information which instantly improved my day.
 

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Asking for Colts is probably the most frustrating think to do at a gun shop. Just about every gunshop I go too knows next to nothing about Colts, doesn't say anything good about them and will sure make it difficult to buy one.

There is a store I go to that is good about ordering anything from Colt that I want and they now actually stock two or three of their 1911s, since seeing mine come it and noticing how nice they are. (Of course, I keep having to send my Colts back for flaws in them. Just picked up another new 70 series in the new Custom Shop box... The rear of the slide was OVERHANGING the rear of the frame AGAIN. Very frustrating...)

Oops, I guess I'm venting, now... (Colt is still my favorite.)

Steve
 

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SteveW13 said:
(Of course, I keep having to send my Colts back for flaws in them. Just picked up another new 70 series in the new Custom Shop box... The rear of the slide was OVERHANGING the rear of the frame AGAIN. Very frustrating...)
Meaning the barrel isnt fit properly so that its just a milllimeter or two out of battery?
 

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MORON behind the counter

I know what it's like to talk to a moron behind a gunstore counter.

I've been dealing with one professional run privately owned store for about 5 years.

Anyway, I heard about another firearm store on the other side of town that I've never been to. Curiosity took me there one day when I was off.......

I start talking to this guy (behind counter) about AR-15's, he was telling me that it's "ok" to put a collapsable stock on a post-ban AR. He then continued to tell me that he's put them on several post-bans!!!!

Sounds to me that there are quite a few people out there who own illegal guns and don't even know it!

That was my cue to leave.....needless to say this place was just shut down the other day by the ATF.

I just keep thinking of the people out there that don't have much knowledge when it comes to firearms, and are basing decisions on what they are being told by the numbnut behind the counter.

This kind of thing popping up in the newspaper, or on the local news channel is NOT helping the law abiding gun owner. In this day and age with gun laws tightening, we certainly DO NOT need any "help" from these morons........thanks for nothing!
 

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The Orange Turners is pretty good, but you do have Fowler's a couple blocks down the street to keep them on their toes :D

Some of the Fountain Valley Turners people are pretty cool, and the manager is a good guy, but there are a couple of guys in there who "ain't the brightest hammers in the bag." :hrm:

Since Gold Coast just moved a couple blocks up the street from them, the FV Turners may get more of a clue, too.

But Turners do NOT stock any Colt's pistols, ever, unless it's a consignment. Why the staff insists on being idiots about the reasons isn't clear. I did have one of the FV guys tell me that Colt's were junk - I pointed out that the last couple of years I've heard mostly good reports about the NRMs and the repro models; he just reiterated that all the ones he'd seen were execrable.

YMMV

Try ARM USA, Fowler's/Stockade, or On Target for Colt's; Flag will order them at a decent price. Prices at the first two will be a bit high (MSRP or more :mummy: ) but On Target and Flag should be competitive.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
tc..

Thanks for the advice. Fowlers are good guys. Very knowledgable and no ego, but as you say, they are pricey. I went into the Stockade once but was treated like -- well -- a lesser human. Not sure I'll go back there. Gold Coast was very helpful. ArmUSA -- good people. But that place is getting odd. In a conversation with Jolynne today I was told that they are moving and restructering their service style to a members-only set-up. $120 gets you a membership that "allows" the customer the ability to purchase guns at reduced prices ($30 off or so). Without a membership they will not sell to you. This is not in effect yet but they are working out the details.

The other two stores you mentioned, On Target and that other one seem worth a look. I have not heard about them until you mentioned it. Turners though ---- fine if you're buying ammo or if you go in knowing what you want --- but I would not go asking them questions. Perhaps it's time we contact their corporate offices to tell them that they're undertrained sales staff is spewing B.S, lies, and outright mis-information.
 

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Mus said:
Meaning the barrel isnt fit properly so that its just a milllimeter or two out of battery?
Mus,

That's correct. I already have another Colt (NRM 80) at Colt for the same repair (among two other problems).

Steve
 

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I have that problem a lot here. It seems that 1 out of every 3 or 4 guns I buy. No matter from what dealer I get some guy that has NO IDEA what he is talking about. I have been told that Dan Wesson does not sell 10mm's even after I gave the guy the web site and told him where to find it on the site. I have been told that Taurus does not make a PT-132. That is a Millinium series .32. I wish I would have beleived them on that gun though. I have been told that I can not get a new Hi-Power. Even after I told the dealer that another dealer had 3 or 4 on the shelf.

My last dealing with a gun dealer: I took a friend to one of the 3 or 4 gun shops I frequent. He lives about 45 minutes south of me. He wanted to look at a Glock 29 that I told him they had. He ended up not likeing it. He had also been eyeing a Springfield Compact . So we asked the dealer how much they would sell one for and when they could get one since they had none in stock. Now my buddy and I pretty much knew the ends and outs of these guns I am mentioning because we had been looking at the SA catalog for about a week or two everyday. He had alos looked up all the info on the web site. Anyway, the store genuis said that his distributor had none in stock but they had several of the Ultra Compact. Since this gun had a 1/2" shorter barrel it would be a little less weight and it also held 8+1 rounds of .45. My buddy and I glance at each other :rolleyes: . I then say no, the Ultra Compact is all steel, the compact has an aluminum frame. Also It only holds 6+1, I think you were looking at the Ultra in 9mm. He went on to argue and treat us like idiots. My friend then says, well all the info in the catalog and on the internet say that the Compact is lighter than the Ultra. Also they only hold 6+1 in .45. The store clerk told us that catalogs are wrong alot of the time and when it comes to concealed carry guns Springfield is in way over there head anyway. So that dealer lost a gun sale that day and my friend says he will never go back to that place. I have been back I just won't deal with that person.
 

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Amadeus said:
tc..

Thanks for the advice. Fowlers are good guys. Very knowledgable and no ego, but as you say, they are pricey. I went into the Stockade once but was treated like -- well -- a lesser human. Not sure I'll go back there. Gold Coast was very helpful. ArmUSA -- good people. But that place is getting odd. In a conversation with Jolynne today I was told that they are moving and restructering their service style to a members-only set-up. $120 gets you a membership that "allows" the customer the ability to purchase guns at reduced prices ($30 off or so). Without a membership they will not sell to you. This is not in effect yet but they are working out the details.

The other two stores you mentioned, On Target and that other one seem worth a look. I have not heard about them until you mentioned it. Turners though ---- fine if you're buying ammo or if you go in knowing what you want --- but I would not go asking them questions. Perhaps it's time we contact their corporate offices to tell them that they're undertrained sales staff is spewing B.S, lies, and outright mis-information.
On Target is in Laguna Niguel off the 5 at avery; Flag Guns is in La Habra at Harbor & La Habra.

Haven't been in The Stockade for years myself, but they and Fowler's are the same ownership so I thought they might have improved :rolleyes: ; guess not.

I got the email re: ARM USA a couple days ago - not sure just what they're planning. I'll probably wander by there this week sometime and get the skinny myself. I know when I was shopping for a safe I looked really hard at their AmSec line but ended up with a Cannon from Costco that was a great deal. I've only ever bought accessories there except for my Ruger Mk II Target. Like Fowler's, good selection and fairly knowledgeable but pricey and no wiggle unless you're an "established customer" meaning you've bought a few guns at list - They MIGHT give you a deal then.

ARM USA does offer the NRA discount, but it rarely brings the price down enough.
 

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To be fair, I might know about the ubertactical black pistol product lines (Beretta, HK) etc but don't know a lever gun or military surplus rifles from a hole in the ground. I think it's unrealistic for us to expect someone behind the counter to know everything about every gun.

Some people here have encyclopedic knowledge of 1911s which is great (and the reason I spend time here) but if I worked at a gun store, someone came up to me and if the Wilson CQB in the counter has MIM parts or not because after a certain serial they are tool steel again, or which model Springfields are forged in Brazil and made here as opposed to made 100% in the USA, I'd have no clue.

Now I wouldn't be talking about stuff I don't know about but still I think it's expecting a bit much to expect them to know everything....

Not critisizing your or anything, just playing Senator Perata's advocate ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Skunkabilly:

Your comment about a person's level of knowledge is an excellent point. My knowledge is limited at best. I am the first to admit it. Yet I am also a firm proponent of checking my facts before going off on a misinformed tangent. In defense of the sales clerk, he did admit he does not know much about pistols. But to tell me that "puckey" about Colt based on whatever rumors he's been handed down from whatever ghostly sources he has is irresponsible.

Additionally, it is not merely his knowledge that is at issue here. His customer service skills are critically lacking. Rather than risk losing a customer for good I would rather give up the commission and find someone who is more educated in that item. A little of the "customer first" philosophy goes a long way toward retaining repeat business.
 
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